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Thread: Stojko opposes the ladies result

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrymeyunakim View Post
    Completely agree with Layfan.

    Mao's triple axel is beautiful but for her it is the easier jump than the 3-lutz on which she would get an automatic -2 or -3 deduction for a clear inside edge. Just because the triple axel is considered the most difficult jump doesn't mean that she should get a clear bonus, even when she's clearly lacking technical ability on her lutz (and salchow for that matter). Consider a skater with big 2a and huge 3Lz and compare with a skater who has a huge 3a and no lutz.

    I'm surprised to hear so many people complain about her GOE when she has not gotten absolutely skyrocket GOE's for her triple axel. Her triple axel is gorgeous but it has more to do with the speed of her rotation than her coverage and height in the air. Her 2-t is tacked on as an afterthought. I just wish Mao-chan had a better coach, one to help her think more strategically, work on the technical issues that feature in her strategy and better choreography.
    Does Mao have a problem with her salchow? Because I checked the protocals from previous seasons and the times she tried it, she usually landed it without any UR. However, she doesn't really attempt it that often. I read that she doesn't like that jump for some reason.

  2. #137
    Medalist ryoko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Spins and Spirals? I don't agree Yuna has better spins and spirals than Mao. Doing the judging by yourself online provides a more objective comparison of the scores?
    ...and what exactly is your understanding of "good" spins and spirals?
    I hope you don't just say mao is more bendy and has prettier positions. :sheesh:
    Judges look at the depth, speed, extension and overall control of the edge in spirals.
    Before concluding mao has better spirals tell us exactly how.
    Is she faster? Uses deeper edges? Holds the position longer? Same goes with the spins.

    I'm not saying that you said this, but I'm really getting sick of people criticizing yuna's flexibility. Too bad she wasn't born with it. Too bad she didn't learn ballet when she was four. The girl worked her butt off to earn what she has now. In interview yuna's dad said it's a miracle that she has the biellman position because he never thought she could. She cried everytime she tried and practiced almost brutally to have the position she has now.
    Talking about her flexibility endlessly is like asking why does mao flutz or why does she take off with full blade with toe jumps.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Oh, I thought he was just being quoted in that other article... do you have a link to his?
    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/van...yhoo&type=lgns

    Here is prediction article where he assess each of the top skaters. He praises Mao for attempting the 3A but he also praises Yuna for having the total package. So I don't think his statements reflect the view that Mao is better than Yuna because she does the 3A.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryoko View Post
    ...and what exactly is your understanding of "good" spins and spirals?
    I hope you don't just say mao is more bendy and has prettier positions. :sheesh:
    Judges look at the depth, speed, extension and overall control of the edge in spirals.
    Before concluding mao has better spirals tell us exactly how.
    Is she faster? Uses deeper edges? Holds the position longer? Same goes with the spins.

    I'm not saying that you said this, but I'm really getting sick of people criticizing yuna's flexibility. Too bad she wasn't born with it. Too bad she didn't learn ballet when she was four. The girl worked her butt off to earn what she has now. In interview yuna's dad said it's a miracle that she has the biellman position because he never thought she could. She cried everytime she tried and practiced almost brutally to have the position she has now.
    Talking about her flexibility endlessly is like asking why does mao flutz or why does she take off with full blade with toe jumps.
    I know it is not a big factor for spirals/spins under the current system. But shouldn't better positions be rewarded for more? I mean spirals is a visual sight. It should look pretty. I am also not targeting you but I am tired of some people always criticizing Mao for almost everything even for the backstory of her music selection. That's just ridiculous.
    Last edited by miki88; 02-24-2010 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #140
    Medalist ryoko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    But shouldn't better positions be rewarded for more? I mean spirals is a visual sight. It should look pretty. I am also not targeting you but I am tired of some people always criticizing Mao for almost everything even for the backstory of her music selection. That's just ridiculous.
    If that same spirals meets all other components (again, depth, speed, control...etc.) of a good spiral, why not.
    All I am saying is that good position alone is not a measure of good spiral.
    It is silly to say that some skaters, including yuna, never deserve level 4 on spiral sequence just because they aren't as flexible as sasha cohen.

    And as for mao's music, what's chosen is what's chosen. People will need to get over it.
    But do you understand my point?

  6. #141
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    miki88 lol

    I find your opinions to be pretty reasonable. It seems you're coming under fire in multiple discussions for them, though, hehe. I like YuNa's spirals...I love Mao's. From the judges' point of view though, it seems that positions aren't the only consideration (although to me, they are the most noticeable.) YuNa seems to be given credit for her edging and speed.

  7. #142
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    Stojko is becoming as relevant as a skating commentator as he is a successful singer.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    miki88 lol

    I find your opinions to be pretty reasonable. It seems you're coming under fire in multiple discussions for them, though, hehe. I like YuNa's spirals...I love Mao's. From the judges' point of view though, it seems that positions aren't the only consideration (although to me, they are the most noticeable.) YuNa seems to be given credit for her edging and speed.
    Hehe. But what I can do? I just can't help expressing my opinions.

    And to Ryoko, yes I understand your point.

  9. #144
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    I've never thought Yu-Na's spirals were bad; just not the same as other skaters like Mao. Don't blame Kim for utilising the current system such that she gets level fours anyway, taking advantage of her great edges and her speed.

  10. #145
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/van...yhoo&type=lgns

    Here is prediction article where he assess each of the top skaters. He praises Mao for attempting the 3A but he also praises Yuna for having the total package. So I don't think his statements reflect the view that Mao is better than Yuna because she does the 3A.
    it seems you're right and I have to take back my assessment of Elvis' views. :o

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryoko View Post
    If that same spirals meets all other components (again, depth, speed, control...etc.) of a good spiral, why not.
    All I am saying is that good position alone is not a measure of good spiral.
    It is silly to say that some skaters, including yuna, never deserve level 4 on spiral sequence just because they aren't as flexible as sasha cohen.

    And as for mao's music, what's chosen is what's chosen. People will need to get over it.
    But do you understand my point?

    I actually really like Yuna's spirals. Sure, her free leg isn't in a full split but her spirals are fast and have good control and just look nice. Carolina also has very nice spirals without having a full split. I often feel like the full split spirals (eg Sasha, Caroline) move very slowly which kinda diminishes the impact. Mirai is one skater who has a very flexible spiral positition while maintaining good speed.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    Regardless of the rotation issue, there is a major difference between Mao and Yuna's combos: Mao takes forever to setup her combo, and she just gets it done while Yuna goes at it at super-sonic speed, has amazing height on BOTH jumps and great flow of it. Doesn't that warrant higher GOES? Besides, Yuna's combo has a 0.5 difference in base value. That's almost 2.5 points difference right there.
    Mao asada has amazing speed to, she can easily go to the other side of the rink with her speed, besides "takes forever"? So yuna does her start pose and then she is already jumping? Both take the same amount of time to set up their jumps, BTW no transitions on any onf them, because its a hard combination.
    Cant believe people are saying mao does not have transition into the 3A, for god sake not even toya or midori had it.

    Yuna was the winner but not with that score, thats score was just stupid, its should be at leats 2 points difference betwwen them not 5.
    Last edited by Iscariot; 02-24-2010 at 07:18 PM.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by yangjie View Post
    former Canadian medallist Elvis Stojko, suggested that Kim's marks were too high. He noted that Asada had successfully landed a triple Axel - she's the only woman who executes them regularly in competition - and got fewer marks than Kim's easier triple Lutz.
    The argument is similar to the one over whether American Evan Lysacek should have won the gold medal without having landed a quad like his competitor Evgeni Plushenko.

    "Yu-Na Kim is way too far ahead. I don't agree with that," said Stojko. "She skated great. Don't get me wrong, she's awesome. But for Mao to do an awesome triple Axel like that, a triple [Axel] is worth way more than a triple Lutz, triple toe."

    http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-ska...u+na+path+gold

    I think another controversial result is about to be born..
    This is just precious coming from the Celebrated Jumping Frog of Ontario County. Of course he's in favor of jumping over artistry, interpretation, musicality, spins, spirals, footwork, and basic skating skills. If not for his jumping he would have been coaching at his local rollerskating rink.

  14. #149
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    Elvis really needs to shut his mouth, becuase he's killing what little creditblity he's ever had and also hurting the sport to boot.

    ITA w/whomever said the rule change that needs to happen in the Ladies SP is that they have the option to do either a double or a triple Axel. Just as the Men have.

    As for how the marks went last night...Did Mao land the Triple Axel? Yes, however, it was a bit tight and the speed going into it and coming out of it into that double was slow. I, and I'm sure the Judges, have seen Mao do far better Triple Axels in the past, so I'm hoping *that* was compairsion they were making last night. As for the speed...I was shocked at just slow and creeping Mao was going into that last night. It reminded me of Sandhu's stalking of his Triple Axel and that's not a compairison Mao wants I'm sure.

    She landed it, but didn't deserve the out of world GOE some think she deserves just for "landing" the thing. The GOE Mao got for what she did *last night*, was right for what she did.

    One thing that's missing in this discussion...Regardless of what we all think, it really was lovely to see a smile on Mao's face as she was skating last night. I've missed that this season.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Elvis really needs to shut his mouth, becuase he's killing what little creditblity he's ever had and also hurting the sport to boot.

    ITA w/whomever said the rule change that needs to happen in the Ladies SP is that they have the option to do either a double or a triple Axel. Just as the Men have.

    As for how the marks went last night...Did Mao land the Triple Axel? Yes, however, it was a bit tight and the speed going into it and coming out of it into that double was slow. I, and I'm sure the Judges, have seen Mao do far better Triple Axels in the past, so I'm hoping *that* was compairsion they were making last night. As for the speed...I was shocked at just slow and creeping Mao was going into that last night. It reminded me of Sandhu's stalking of his Triple Axel and that's not a compairison Mao wants I'm sure.

    She landed it, but didn't deserve the out of world GOE some think she deserves just for "landing" the thing. The GOE Mao got for what she did *last night*, was right for what she did.

    One thing that's missing in this discussion...Regardless of what we all think, it really was lovely to see a smile on Mao's face as she was skating last night. I've missed that this season.
    ITA with you on both points. The hissy fits about the score spread are getting annoying; let's focus on the fact that Mao finally looked happy for the first time since teaming up with Ursula... er, I mean Tatiana the Sea Witch... er, I mean Tarasova.
    Last edited by sleepyjl; 02-24-2010 at 07:54 PM.

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