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Thread: Stojko opposes the ladies result

  1. #166
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    I agree with what many posts are saying, that both Yuna's triple-triple combos and Mao's triple-axel-double-toe combos should have higher base points.

    I would also like to suggest that there should be a limitation on double jump combos, because demonstrating the ability to do double jump combos is not a reflection of the ability of the skater, particularly in elite competitions.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan
    IMHO the main problem with the "Yuna was overscored" croud (which I think intersects a lot with the "Plushy should have won" club) is that they are basing their assessment on what they think the scores "should" have been based on
    Huh? Why is it a problem for people have opinions about what they watch, and why would you assume that people who think Yuna was overscored have no idea how CoP works? I've watched enough skating to know that CoP is as subjective, if not more so, than 6.0. (PCS, anyone?) It's a judged sport, always has been, always will be, and people are going to have opinions about it. Mao and Yuna both had clean, difficult shorts. To think they should have been closer is a perfectly valid opinion.
    Last edited by karenll; 02-24-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by karenll View Post
    Huh? Why is it a problem for people have opinions about what they watch, and why would you assume that people who think Yuna was overscored have no idea how CoP works? I've watched enough skating to know that CoP is as subjective, if not more so, than 6.0. (PCS, anyone?) It's a judged sport, always has been, always will be, and people are going to have opinions about it. Mao and Yuna both had clean, difficult shorts. To think they should have been closer is a perfectly valid opinion.
    I think all judging systems have faults and should be open to criticisms.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I think all judging systems have faults and should be open to criticisms.
    I did not say the system should not be criticised, it should. In fact, I did explicitly say that:

    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    Now that doesn't mean that the COP cannot be adjusted to reflect higher values for pretty positions, triple axels and quads, but this is not going to happen now, during the Qlympics. Changes can be made for following seasons and there are ways to go about suggesting and discussing those changes. For this season, the rules have been set. Play by them or you lose.

    My gripe is that often "the rules need to be adjusted to increase the value of the element that so-and-so is better at" is often confused with "so-and-so should have won this competition under the current version of the rules"

  5. #170
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    I cant help but agree with Stojko. Even though his past comments about "ballet skating" rather than technical skating was something I disagreed with, I do believe that the 3A is undervalued. For Mao to go out there and complete the 3A is tremendous as only very few women have attempted it and actually landed it. In all I think that the 3A and the quad need to be merited with more recognition and points.

    Also, I found the Kim's lead as over-marked. Yes, she was the better skater at the end of the night but definitely not 5 points better than Mao. If anything, I thought she would be at most 2 points higher than Asada.

  6. #171
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    Could I put Stojko on craigslist on Canada's behalf?

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyla2 View Post
    Thanks formersk8er. As for the person who is sick of reading that Yu Na's spins, spirals and laybacks are bad, you are mistaken. We aren't saying they are bad, but they are very average and should be judged accordingly. Many of us feel she is overscored. I am one of them. She is not judged objectively on many of her elements because she has speed, decent footwork and jumps. She is also a solidly clean skater, rarely making mistakes. That buys her a ton of goodwill from the judges, which in my opinion has the sum effect of artificially inflating her scores. In short, they overlook alot with Yu Na that they don't overlook in other skaters. Mao and Yu Na should have been smack dab next to each other after the SP without the 5 point spread (a 1 point would have been more like it).
    If you're such an expert on every technical element, why arent' you a judge?

    Because every person here is saying it should be scored like this, or it should be scored like that, but how many of us are true experts? Can you tell by just LOOKING at a skater spin at normal speed (not slow-mo) what level his/her spin should get based on the COP guidelines?

    No? Then please just stop.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by theresa View Post
    I cant help but agree with Stojko. Even though his past comments about "ballet skating" rather than technical skating was something I disagreed with, I do believe that the 3A is undervalued. For Mao to go out there and complete the 3A is tremendous as only very few women have attempted it and actually landed it. In all I think that the 3A and the quad need to be merited with more recognition and points.

    Also, I found the Kim's lead as over-marked. Yes, she was the better skater at the end of the night but definitely not 5 points better than Mao. If anything, I thought she would be at most 2 points higher than Asada.
    For me, it's not even the value of the 3A that's the issue...it's the PCS. I don't understand how Yuna gets 8s and 9s in PCS and Mao and other skaters can't break past 7s. I don't think Yuna deserves lower PCS, I just think Mao and some of the other skaters deserve higher PCS.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by theresa View Post
    I cant help but agree with Stojko. Even though his past comments about "ballet skating" rather than technical skating was something I disagreed with, I do believe that the 3A is undervalued. For Mao to go out there and complete the 3A is tremendous as only very few women have attempted it and actually landed it. In all I think that the 3A and the quad need to be merited with more recognition and points.
    I agree with that. I think the 3A should have more value. I also think the value of a combo should be more than the sum of the jump values. Maybe they should have some percentage of the base value of the first jump added to the total. The more difficult the jump is, the harder it is to tag another jump after it.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    I agree with that. I think the 3A should have more value. I also think the value of a combo should be more than the sum of the jump values. Maybe they should have some percentage of the base value of the first jump added to the total. The more difficult the jump is, the harder it is to tag another jump after it.
    Case in point:

    2Axel-2Toeloop-2Loop combination (6.30)
    3Axel-2Toeloop (9.5)

    There is only 3.2 point difference between the two, and when you consider that it is far easier to get positive GOEs on the former rather than the latter, the difference is actually less than 3 points.

  11. #176
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    No one has bothered to say that Yu-Na's triple lutz-triple toe was the FIRST of its kind to show up in a woman's SP, according to Michelle Kwan.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrymeyunakim View Post
    No one has bothered to say that Yu-Na's triple lutz-triple toe was the FIRST of its kind to show up in a woman's SP, according to Michelle Kwan.
    Yuna's triple lutz-triple toe loop is great and she deserves every point gets (and maybe even more, if the triple axel-double toe is going to get the points it deserves).

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrymeyunakim View Post
    No one has bothered to say that Yu-Na's triple lutz-triple toe was the FIRST of its kind to show up in a woman's SP, according to Michelle Kwan.
    I didn't know that. Slutskaya was known for 3-3s, so she didn't do it at some point? (I have no idea whether she did or not, just curious)

  14. #179
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    Didnt Elene Gedevanisvilli do a 3LZ-3T at 2006 olympics short? I know it wasnt as impresive as Yuna, but i remember being a beautiful combination with high and good landing

  15. #180
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Elene did a triple flip-triple toe combo.

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