Stojko opposes the ladies result | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Stojko opposes the ladies result

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I wouldn't mind it so much if Yuna does a 3l instead of 2axel-2toe loop-2loop. I would just like the jump scores to reflect the difficulty of the jumps more.

I wouldn't mind so much if Mao managed a 3Lz instead of falling or under-rotating on 3As....is that a fair equivalent assessment?

Trying to get rid of 2/2 combos, then maybe my counter sugestion would be to ban 3/2s and only allow 3/3s or 2/3s where would that leave Mao?

It is stupid, i repeat STUPID to keep trying to pretend that you are making serious rule change proposals when you are arbitrarily proposing rules changes just because you want Mao to be winning.

The whole thing is nearly as STUPID as I am for bothering with this thread...why oh why don't i learn.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Ant, you're always like that when it comes to signing off. You just revert to making a personal attack and that's that.

Yes you are completely right with that statement all i ever do is sign off with personal attacks...in fact you must be rigth my last post personally attacked me, well done 10/10.

I've set my own homework - writing lines "I must update my ignore list, I must update my ignore list, i must..."

Ant
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Cynthia Phaneuf, also, should not be allowed to garner easy points that way.

That was sort of my point. I think the reason you are not getting anywhere with your argument is that you keep mentioning Yu-na Kim. Neither Kim nor Asada is relevant to a discussion of the desirability of rules changes in the IJS

I don't like the triple-double-double (or 2A-double-double) combinations very much either, but for a different reason. By the time the skater gets to the third jump she has typically come to a complete standstill on the ice, then tries to muscle the last double up somehow or other. It does not work very well within the flow of the choreography.

Double-double combos should not be allowed.

Almost any kind of combo is "allowed" in the free skate. You can do a single toe/single toe combo, if that is all you can do. You will get the base values for the jumps that you do.

We have to remember that the IJS must serve for competitions at every level, starting with beginner.

Conversely, no skater is "required" to do any particular jump. Each skater does what she can and earns the points for what she does.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Er...Mao's SP is basically a summarized version of her LP last season. Same music, same choreo, just different costumes and length of program.

That's what I thought you were talking about. And I don't understand why you would do a short version of a LP that got you off the podium at worlds. I love listening to Katchaturian's music, but it just doesn't work for Mao's skating style. My husband (who is a complete skating novice) commented while watching her SP that "She's such a flowing skater; that music does nothing for her."
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I wouldn't mind so much if Mao managed a 3Lz instead of falling or under-rotating on 3As....is that a fair equivalent assessment?

I don't see how that equates with any point I've made. However, I will agree with you that Mao should be encouraged to master the lutz completely, a point I already made.

Trying to get rid of 2/2 combos, then maybe my counter sugestion would be to ban 3/2s and only allow 3/3s or 2/3s where would that leave Mao?

I would argue that 3/2 should be allowed because adding a double jump after a triple jump is an indication of how well the triple jump was executed.

It is stupid, i repeat STUPID to keep trying to pretend that you are making serious rule change proposals when you are arbitrarily proposing rules changes just because you want Mao to be winning.

Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion. Of course I would like to see Mao win, if she's not going to, I would like to see Yuna win fairly.

The whole thing is nearly as STUPID as I am for bothering with this thread...why oh why don't i learn.

Hey, it's the day of the Olympics after all, when else to do this if not now?
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
That was sort of my point. I think the reason you are not getting anywhere with your argument is that you keep mentioning Yu-na Kim. Neither Kim nor Asada is relevant to a discussion of the desirability of rules changes in the IJS

If someone had brought up Cynthia Phaneuf earlier, I would have commented appropriately, I think. This thread is meant to be about discussing how Erik Stojko doesn't agree with the placement of the short program right? I don't see how the fact that I used Yuna-Mao to talk about the scoring system rather than Cynthia Phaneuf would make my point less legit.
 
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miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Wow. This is a total catfight in here. Anyways, I think those who oppose rule changes saying that those who favor rule changes simply want their favorite skaters to win is just being hypocritical because obviously for some posters who oppose it they think rule changes will negatively affect their favorite skater. It's the exact same intention. :sheesh:
 

bmelanie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
That's what I thought you were talking about. And I don't understand why you would do a short version of a LP that got you off the podium at worlds. I love listening to Katchaturian's music, but it just doesn't work for Mao's skating style. My husband (who is a complete skating novice) commented while watching her SP that "She's such a flowing skater; that music does nothing for her."

I completely agree with you; neither of Mao's music choices capitalize on her natural fluidity of movement; I would have been happier to see Mao reuse Claire de Lune (which I considered rather lackluster last season) than see her give another go at Masquerade. The incessant booms and crashes overwhelm her; thankfully here in Vancouver she was clean, which means she was smiling and all energy. Watching Mao skate a Masquerade after a fall or step-out is painful. Even more painful, however, is watching her use a program that homes in on her athleticism more than anything, when I know that her expression is just as strong as her athleticism if not stronger.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Wow. This is a total catfight in here. Anyways, I think those who oppose rule changes saying that those who favor rule changes simply want their favorite skaters to win is just being hypocritical because obviously for some posters who oppose it they think rule changes will negatively affect their favorite skater. It's the exact same intention. :sheesh:

Who opposes a rule change on its own merits?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Wow. This is a total catfight in here. Anyways, I think those who oppose rule changes saying that those who favor rule changes simply want their favorite skaters to win is just being hypocritical because obviously for some posters who oppose it they think rule changes will negatively affect their favorite skater. It's the exact same intention. :sheesh:

I don't see anyone on here that opposes rule changes. I certainly do not and I don't think Ant does either. I think the point is made because this poster is revolving all the rule changes to just one skater.

Look, I like Mao. And quite frankly I think that if Mao did her 3-3 and the 3Z, then she could easily beat Yuna and who wouldn't want a good rivalry? I mean wasn't it fun in 2007 and 2008 when they were tossing competitions back and forth? It's only in 2009 that Yuna started really passing her anda getting all those crazy world records.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Who opposes a rule change on its own merits?

I am just saying if the opponent camp's intentions is basically the same as the proponent camp, then I don't think they should accuse those who support changes of having those intentions. It's the pot -kettle thing.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion. Of course I would like to see Mao win, if she's not going to, I would like to see Yuna win fairly.

OK, I know I said I would call it a day, but I have one last question. How do you define "fairly"? If Yu-na wins by the rules, which are available to everyone, isn't that fair? Like Mathman said, the same rules apply to everyone, so what's so unfair if Yu-na wins by the rules? Wanting to change the rules is one thing. Implying that Yu-na could win unfairly by the rules is another. I'm hoping your objection has more to do with the CoP than the actual skater.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I completely agree with you; neither of Mao's music choices capitalize on her natural fluidity of movement; I would have been happier to see Mao reuse Claire de Lune (which I considered rather lackluster last season) than see her give another go at Masquerade. The incessant booms and crashes overwhelm her; thankfully here in Vancouver she was clean, which means she was smiling and all energy. Watching Mao skate a Masquerade after a fall or step-out is painful. Even more painful, however, is watching her use a program that homes in on her athleticism more than anything, when I know that her expression is just as strong as her athleticism if not stronger.

That is good stuff. Yes! I think the music choice also hurts her in PCS for sure. The James Bond melody is not my fave SP from Yuna, but the judges are clearly rewarding that she's picking music that goes with her skating skills.

What music do you think woudl work for Mao? I'm thining something in the Romantic period, maybe Chopin? I think Ravel could be really cool too...though that might be a stretch.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I don't see anyone on here that opposes rule changes. I certainly do not and I don't think Ant does either. I think the point is made because this poster is revolving all the rule changes to just one skater.

Look, I like Mao. And quite frankly I think that if Mao did her 3-3 and the 3Z, then she could easily beat Yuna and who wouldn't want a good rivalry? I mean wasn't it fun in 2007 and 2008 when they were tossing competitions back and forth? It's only in 2009 that Yuna started really passing her anda getting all those crazy world records.

But I don't think rule changes will only benefit Mao though (even though the discussion is centered around her and Yuna here). I think in regards to spirals and spins, rule changes can also help skaters like Mirai who has great spiral positions. Also I personally don't think Yuna is winning unfairly since that's what the rules are now. I just don't like how unbalanced and subjective the judging system is now.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
But I don't think rule changes will only benefit Mao though (even though the discussion is centered around her and Yuna here). I think in regards to spirals and spins, rule changes can also help skaters like Mirai who has great spiral positions.

But yes, I would agree that rule changes would benefit all skaters. I only mention Mao here because that is what this poster seems focused on. And I mention Mao in my post as a digression to oppose some assumpions being made (or implied) 1.) that defending certain points of Yuna's LP means I don't like Mao 2.) That I believe that Mao cannot beat Yuna and that Yuna can do no wrong and 3.) That I am a Korean Yuna-bot :)
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I guess I just don't see much "opposition" to rule changes, just that one person is clearly promoting rules changes based on his/her own agenda. Opposition comes not from the change itself, but to the motive.
 

bmelanie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
That is good stuff. Yes! I think the music choice also hurts her in PCS for sure. The James Bond melody is not my fave SP from Yuna, but the judges are clearly rewarding that she's picking music that goes with her skating skills.

What music do you think woudl work for Mao? I'm thining something in the Romantic period, maybe Chopin? I think Ravel could be really cool too...though that might be a stretch.

Chopin, Ravel, maybe Schubert (perhaps because my roommate's been playing him incessantly lately and I like it :p). Mozart would not go amiss either. Or just some gorgeous piano music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyapKfYIEU
 
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