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Thread: Stojko opposes the ladies result

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Wow. This is a total catfight in here. Anyways, I think those who oppose rule changes saying that those who favor rule changes simply want their favorite skaters to win is just being hypocritical because obviously for some posters who oppose it they think rule changes will negatively affect their favorite skater. It's the exact same intention. :sheesh:
    Who opposes a rule change on its own merits?

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Wow. This is a total catfight in here. Anyways, I think those who oppose rule changes saying that those who favor rule changes simply want their favorite skaters to win is just being hypocritical because obviously for some posters who oppose it they think rule changes will negatively affect their favorite skater. It's the exact same intention. :sheesh:
    I don't see anyone on here that opposes rule changes. I certainly do not and I don't think Ant does either. I think the point is made because this poster is revolving all the rule changes to just one skater.

    Look, I like Mao. And quite frankly I think that if Mao did her 3-3 and the 3Z, then she could easily beat Yuna and who wouldn't want a good rivalry? I mean wasn't it fun in 2007 and 2008 when they were tossing competitions back and forth? It's only in 2009 that Yuna started really passing her anda getting all those crazy world records.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Who opposes a rule change on its own merits?
    I am just saying if the opponent camp's intentions is basically the same as the proponent camp, then I don't think they should accuse those who support changes of having those intentions. It's the pot -kettle thing.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Of course you are entitled to your personal opinion. Of course I would like to see Mao win, if she's not going to, I would like to see Yuna win fairly.
    OK, I know I said I would call it a day, but I have one last question. How do you define "fairly"? If Yu-na wins by the rules, which are available to everyone, isn't that fair? Like Mathman said, the same rules apply to everyone, so what's so unfair if Yu-na wins by the rules? Wanting to change the rules is one thing. Implying that Yu-na could win unfairly by the rules is another. I'm hoping your objection has more to do with the CoP than the actual skater.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmelanie View Post
    I completely agree with you; neither of Mao's music choices capitalize on her natural fluidity of movement; I would have been happier to see Mao reuse Claire de Lune (which I considered rather lackluster last season) than see her give another go at Masquerade. The incessant booms and crashes overwhelm her; thankfully here in Vancouver she was clean, which means she was smiling and all energy. Watching Mao skate a Masquerade after a fall or step-out is painful. Even more painful, however, is watching her use a program that homes in on her athleticism more than anything, when I know that her expression is just as strong as her athleticism if not stronger.
    That is good stuff. Yes! I think the music choice also hurts her in PCS for sure. The James Bond melody is not my fave SP from Yuna, but the judges are clearly rewarding that she's picking music that goes with her skating skills.

    What music do you think woudl work for Mao? I'm thining something in the Romantic period, maybe Chopin? I think Ravel could be really cool too...though that might be a stretch.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I don't see anyone on here that opposes rule changes. I certainly do not and I don't think Ant does either. I think the point is made because this poster is revolving all the rule changes to just one skater.

    Look, I like Mao. And quite frankly I think that if Mao did her 3-3 and the 3Z, then she could easily beat Yuna and who wouldn't want a good rivalry? I mean wasn't it fun in 2007 and 2008 when they were tossing competitions back and forth? It's only in 2009 that Yuna started really passing her anda getting all those crazy world records.
    But I don't think rule changes will only benefit Mao though (even though the discussion is centered around her and Yuna here). I think in regards to spirals and spins, rule changes can also help skaters like Mirai who has great spiral positions. Also I personally don't think Yuna is winning unfairly since that's what the rules are now. I just don't like how unbalanced and subjective the judging system is now.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    But I don't think rule changes will only benefit Mao though (even though the discussion is centered around her and Yuna here). I think in regards to spirals and spins, rule changes can also help skaters like Mirai who has great spiral positions.
    But yes, I would agree that rule changes would benefit all skaters. I only mention Mao here because that is what this poster seems focused on. And I mention Mao in my post as a digression to oppose some assumpions being made (or implied) 1.) that defending certain points of Yuna's LP means I don't like Mao 2.) That I believe that Mao cannot beat Yuna and that Yuna can do no wrong and 3.) That I am a Korean Yuna-bot

  8. #278
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    I guess I just don't see much "opposition" to rule changes, just that one person is clearly promoting rules changes based on his/her own agenda. Opposition comes not from the change itself, but to the motive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    That is good stuff. Yes! I think the music choice also hurts her in PCS for sure. The James Bond melody is not my fave SP from Yuna, but the judges are clearly rewarding that she's picking music that goes with her skating skills.

    What music do you think woudl work for Mao? I'm thining something in the Romantic period, maybe Chopin? I think Ravel could be really cool too...though that might be a stretch.
    Chopin, Ravel, maybe Schubert (perhaps because my roommate's been playing him incessantly lately and I like it :P). Mozart would not go amiss either. Or just some gorgeous piano music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyapKfYIEU

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I guess I just don't see much "opposition" to rule changes, just that one person is clearly promoting rules changes based on his/her own agenda. Opposition comes not from the change itself, but to the motive.
    ita.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaginarypogue View Post
    i guess i just don't see much "opposition" to rule changes, just that one person is clearly promoting rules changes based on his/her own agenda. Opposition comes not from the change itself, but to the motive.
    ita.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    OK, I know I said I would call it a day, but I have one last question. How do you define "fairly"? If Yu-na wins by the rules, which are available to everyone, isn't that fair? Like Mathman said, the same rules apply to everyone, so what's so unfair if Yu-na wins by the rules? Wanting to change the rules is one thing. Implying that Yu-na could win unfairly by the rules is another. I'm hoping your objection has more to do with the CoP than the actual skater.
    I am so going to get accused of being persistent for saying the same thing, but then, the same questions are put to me!

    I think Yuna (or any other skater competing at an elite level) should not be allowed to garner 6.9 points for doing an easy combo, when this method will allow them to minimize their inability to do a triple jump that they are not good at. This is especially the case when it is that harder combos are not being rewarded the points it deserves.

    In other words, permitting 2axel-2toeloop-2loop minimizes Skater A's jumping deficiencies, whilst also minimizing Skater B's amazing jumping abilities.

    I think this perspective can be applied to other competitions, e.g., Lysacek and Plushenko, or other skaters whose names are not Yuna Kim and Mao Asada.
    Last edited by hurrah; 02-25-2010 at 12:59 PM.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmelanie View Post
    Chopin, Ravel, maybe Schubert (perhaps because my roommate's been playing him incessantly lately and I like it :P). Mozart would not go amiss either. Or just some gorgeous piano music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcyapKfYIEU
    Yes Schubert would be great. He was my favorite composer when I was still taking piano lessons. But any sort of piano music would be cool.
    Here's a out-of-the-box one for you: how about orchestrated Radiohead? crazy...but even though Radiohead's music is sort of dark, I could somehow see an orchestrated or piano version of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" working for Mao.

  14. #284
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    But to look at the issue objectively (LOL), the ISU is definitely cognizant of the point that Hurrah is raising. You don't want a skater to be able to rack up points by doing 100 double toes in a row.

    In the last few years the ISU has spoken to these points by

    (a) the rule that says only one of your three combos can involve more than two jumps;

    (b) If you do a combo or sequence with more than three jumps only the first three count; and

    (c) You can only do a total of three double Axels in your progam. (The previous rule was, you could do as many double jumps as you want. But when they raised the value of the double Axel to 3.5 points they didn't want someone doing seven double Axels and no triples.)

    The ISU also responded to folks like Stojko who think the triple Axel and quads deserve more points. Last year they raised the value of both of these challenging elements.

    Maybe next year they will raise them a little more. ("The CoP is doing well, if you don't like it, ** ** ****" -- (signed) Ottavio Cinquanta )
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-25-2010 at 01:06 PM.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I am so going to get accused of being persistent for saying the same thing, but then, the same questions are put to me!

    I think Yuna (or any other skater competing at an elite level) should not be allowed to garner 6.9 points for doing an easy combo, when this method will allow them to minimize their inability to do a triple jump that they are not good at. This is especially the case when it is that harder combos are not being rewarded the points it deserves.

    In other words, permitting 2axel-2toeloop-2loop minimizes Skater A's jumping deficiencies, whilst also minimizing Skater B's amazing jumping abilities.

    I think this perspective can be applied to other competitions, e.g., Lysacek and Plushenko, or other skaters whose names are not Yuna Kim and Mao Asada.
    Your claim that these rules 'maximize' one skater's abilities and 'minimize' another's can be turned another way. Skater A is using the rules to maximize what she can do, while Skater B is failing to take advantage of them (and even more so she is failing to take advantage of her natural abilities). Anyone knows that an athlete in competition needs to be mindful of the rules - it's what makes the athlete a competitor.

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