wagner vs verdi...lol neither are my preferred composers (though if i had to choose, i would choose verdi most definitely)...if we're talking opera then PUCCINI ALL THE WAY! :D
BTW I never caled you a bot, nor will I do so. I agree that the word bot is thrown at anyone that gives critcism of a favorite skater. And I'm not into labeling anyway.
However, as I read more of your posts, I realized that your might've just used the wrong words to describe the situation. I'm guessing you didn't really mean Yu-na was there at the inception of the system or striking a deal with Speedy (which is what some Mao bots do say). You just meant that the GOE-system benefits Yu-na a lot more than it does Mao. If that's the case, I'm sorry I prematurely called bot alert. Don't worry, Yu-na fans here are willing to hear criticism of Yu-na's skating skills. If a Yu-na bot were to claim Yu-na's perfect, I would have an argument just like this because I know that's not true. And also know that many Yu-na fans here are also rooting for Mao (like me).
Last edited by dlgpffps; 02-25-2010 at 03:55 PM.
An international coaches group that gsrossano is associated with put forward an interesting scale of values last year based on the mathematical premise that as you add rotations the difficulty of the jump actually goes up exponentially instead of linearly.
So for instance, if the base value for a single toe-loop is 0.25, and the value for a double toe is 1.00, that's four times as much. So for a triple toe it should be four times the value for a double (4.0) and a quad should be four times that (16.0). Presumably a quint would come in at 64 points.
The way the CoP is actually constructed, though, it seems like the premium is on the margin -- how can you squeeze a few extra points out of the system to set yourself above all the others who are doing more or less the same thing.
For instance, under the current rules the only bonus you get for doing a triple-triple combination is that you get to do an extra triple jump within the total of seven jumping passes. You don't get the extra jump plus some bonus points on top of that for doing it in combination. So the idea is that the system provides the opportunity to squeeze ahead of everyone else , but it's up to you to seize it -- and it is hard to do so successfully.
Last edited by Mathman; 02-25-2010 at 03:33 PM.
"I so wish combos comprising more than one double jumps were prohibited because the ability to do such combos are not reflective of the skater's ability.
If they were prohibited, Yuna would be forced to replace her 2a-2t-2l combo with a 3l, which would mean that she would potentially garner 59.45 in base points.
Mao would be forced to replace her 3f-2l-2l with a 3f-3l, with a potential base point of 66.2.
Had this been the case, Mao would have had a fighting chance against Yuna, but as things stand, it's the GOE that determines who's going to win.
And GOEs only take into account things that Yuna is good at: speed. It doesn't take into account what Mao is good at: flexibility.
It looks like the whole system's been carefully crafted to make sure Yuna wins no matter what. It simply doesn't matter whether or not Mao makes history by making the first woman to suceed three triple axels in a competition. "
(Emphasis mine and also another poster who quoted this sentence.)
You know, I'm not even remotely inclined to lean toward being convinced (am I sounding dubious enough, lol?) that the results of any competition SHOULD have anything to do with whether a skater "makes history" during the competition, unless the skater "makes history" in some manner that positively affects their results within the sport's rules. The competition should be decided on the rules as they stand, not whether or not a move or set of moves "makes history". Plenty of skating "firsts" have been performed by skaters who don't go on to win or even medal in said history-making competition. I really don't think Mao should inherently win just because she might do 3 triple axels during a competition, wonderful though that would be. Just as Goebel was never a shoe-in because of the number of quads he performed, to give another specific example, or Ito with her magnificent triple axel -- or when a pair is the first to do a certain type of triple- or quad- throw, for a less specific but non-jump example!
When CoP started, flutz wasn't penalized. Mao did 2 Flips, 2 Flutzes, 1 Axel, 1 Loop, 1 Toe in her first senior worlds. Her entire junior career included 3 flutzes/event.
That, coupled with the axel rule in the SP, pretty much sealed the deal for Mao. For the record, flutz should be penalized. I don't agree with the 2A in the SP.
Like you said, her base value would go up, but the difficulty would stay the same. She would have to do the 3A like she's doing now (same risk), doing the 3flip now (same risk), and her favorite loop jump. The gap between Yuna and Mao would be closer.
I think you need to read the rules, understand the rules, and tailor your skating to maximize your points under the current rules based on your strengths. I skate under IJS at Adult Nationals and there are a lot of people who tailor their program to their strengths (high level spiral sequences in adult Gold ladies where single Axels can be iffy, higher level spins in Masters Intermediate/Novice without attempting double jumps, etc) and determine what will work BEST for them based on what they can do. I am not the most flexible of skaters, yet I've found ways to maximize my step/spiral sequence element and to gain higher levels on spins based on bullets I can complete without tearing muscles by trying to put my skate in my ear. This is where the comment about plan your skate and skate your plan comes in = put in the elements that will get you the max number of points CONSISTENTLY, work on the elements that are less consistent/less likely to attain 0 or higher GOEs and add them in slowly to improve your chances for a higher score. If something is not likely to score well or isn't part of the + GOE bullet checklist or PCS bullets, then don't work on it or don't do it.