Page 25 of 35 FirstFirst ... 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 ... LastLast
Results 361 to 375 of 520

Thread: Stojko opposes the ladies result

  1. #361
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,201
    I was not surprised @ the 150. I called it on a discussion we were having on Facebook while watching earlier skaters (Group 2) on FROMSPORTS.COM - Phaneuf got a 99+ for a mistake filled skate, there was a 115 early, and a couple other high scores.

  2. #362
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    Yeah, she is a good sport about it all, and kudos to her....so admirable. That's why when it comes to these passionate discussions, I tend to not blame the skaters themselves. If anything, I thank them for the amazing things they can do. Kim's performance last night was truly a masterpiece, with or without the inflated marks given to her.
    I hope you'll see from my past posts that I have been very careful to make it clear that I don't blame Yuna for the judging system. But then, on the other hand, it's kind of true that I'm very dispassionate about Yuna. I see her as a great skater but that's all that Yuna does for me. So my sense of detachment is reflected in my choice of words, I guess.... Can't help it.

  3. #363
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,330
    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    But then, on the other hand, it's kind of true that I'm very dispassionate about Yuna. I see her as a great skater but that's all that Yuna does for me.
    Yes, but you could just think that to yourself and not hurt the feelings of Kim fans by your choice of words. (Just saying...)

    Anyway, I do not see how the double Axel requirement in the ladies' short program puts ladies with a triple Axel at a disadvantage. For one thing, they have all of the same options as everyone else. They could do triple Lutz/triple toe and triple flip out of footwork, for instance, and save their triple Axel for the long program.

    But in addition, they have a lot of extra options that tyhe other skaters don't have. They could do triple Axel/triple toe, then triple Lutz out of footwork, if they are able to. They could do triple flip/triple loop and triple Axel out of footwork. If they can't do a triple/triple, they could do a triple/double (triple Axel/double toe) and get as many points as a triple flip/triple toe, and still do a triple Lutz as the solo jump. Lots of ways to take advantage of the triple Axel, while still satisfying the double Axel requirement.

  4. #364
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    About Yuna's score...after giving lepisto the 126 for a not-outstanding performance, they HAD to give Yuna a score in the 140-150 range to make it balance out. It didn't really surprise me- but doesn't mean it's not ridiculous.

  5. #365
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yes, but you could just think that to yourself and not hurt the feelings of Kim fans by your choice of words. (Just saying...)
    I'll try to be more sensitive. I wasn't so conscious of it until it was pointed out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Anyway, I do not see how the double Axel requirement in the ladies' short program puts ladies with a triple Axel at a disadvantage.
    Someone else must have suggested this. I never have. I did, however, say that 2a-2t-2l should not be allowed in a long program. Basically, what I'm saying is that the third double-axel (and additional double jumps that are attached to it) should not be allowed. The third jump enables a jumper to avoid a triple jump they're not good at and still get points equivalent to a triple jump---in fact, it gets more points than a triple jump: 6.9 rather than 5.0 if it's a triple-loop that's being avoided. So I pointed out that this option enables a skater to garner points without actually demonstrating his/her technical versatility that they ought have to to get such points, at the expense of another skater who jumps a huge risk triple-axel combo.

    You see, I'm not a Yuna fan, so I perhaps feel more keenly that she should really earn those points.

    By the way, Lepisto got 10 GOEs that night, second only to Yuna who got around 18. Lepisto is very beautiful and manages to land more triples than Caro, and I guess they need a European rep.
    Last edited by hurrah; 02-26-2010 at 06:43 PM.

  6. #366
    mylastduchess
    Guest
    Don't be too surprised about the inflated marks... its the Olympics after all. Mao would have scored 145-146 if she skated cleanly so Yu-na 150 is not over the moon

  7. #367
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,707
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yes, but you could just think that to yourself and not hurt the feelings of Kim fans by your choice of words. (Just saying...)

    Anyway, I do not see how the double Axel requirement in the ladies' short program puts ladies with a triple Axel at a disadvantage. For one thing, they have all of the same options as everyone else. They could do triple Lutz/triple toe and triple flip out of footwork, for instance, and save their triple Axel for the long program.

    But in addition, they have a lot of extra options that tyhe other skaters don't have. They could do triple Axel/triple toe, then triple Lutz out of footwork, if they are able to. They could do triple flip/triple loop and triple Axel out of footwork. If they can't do a triple/triple, they could do a triple/double (triple Axel/double toe) and get as many points as a triple flip/triple toe, and still do a triple Lutz as the solo jump. Lots of ways to take advantage of the triple Axel, while still satisfying the double Axel requirement.
    What if they can't do triple axel out of footwork? What if they can't do 3-3? the 2A/3A option would let them do the 3A like 2A.
    It gives them more options than the options you listed, thus put them at a disadvantage.

  8. #368
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    About Yuna's score...after giving lepisto the 126 for a not-outstanding performance, they HAD to give Yuna a score in the 140-150 range to make it balance out. It didn't really surprise me- but doesn't mean it's not ridiculous.
    IMO, I think judges should think about the message that comes with their scores. Kim's amazing performance was extraordinary, but had she made 2 glaring mistakes, it would have still been enough for her to take home the gold. As a fan, I would lose my confidence in the judging system. Before any skaters took the ice after Kim, they all knew, including Asada, the fight was for silver or bronze. Perhaps I'm a cynic....does anyone know if a perfect Asada performance would have reached 150+ points?

  9. #369
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by mylastduchess View Post
    Don't be too surprised about the inflated marks... its the Olympics after all. Mao would have scored 145-146 if she skated cleanly so Yu-na 150 is not over the moon
    We must have posted around the same time. Would you mind sharing with us the break down of how Asada would have garnered 146 points?

  10. #370
    mylastduchess
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    IMO, I think judges should think about the message that comes with their scores. Kim's amazing performance was extraordinary, but had she made 2 glaring mistakes, it would have still been enough for her to take home the gold. As a fan, I would lose my confidence in the judging system. Before any skaters took the ice after Kim, they all knew, including Asada, the fight was for silver or bronze. Perhaps I'm a cynic....does anyone know if a perfect Asada performance would have reached 150+ points?
    No Asada would have had around 144-145 if she landed her 3 flip and 3 Toe with + GOE and a bump in PCS... but Yu-na got to 150 because of alot of + GOE in her jumps which Mao didn't have too much of

  11. #371
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by mylastduchess View Post
    No Asada would have had around 144-145 if she landed her 3 flip and 3 Toe with + GOE and a bump in PCS... but Yu-na got to 150 because of alot of + GOE in her jumps which Mao didn't have too much of
    Ah, that's good to know, and thanks for clarifying my misinformed argument. Assuming that Asada may not have garnered high GOE compared to Kim, what would you have given Asada in PCS and Kim respectively?

  12. #372
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    IMO, I think judges should think about the message that comes with their scores. Kim's amazing performance was extraordinary, but had she made 2 glaring mistakes, it would have still been enough for her to take home the gold. As a fan, I would lose my confidence in the judging system. Before any skaters took the ice after Kim, they all knew, including Asada, the fight was for silver or bronze. Perhaps I'm a cynic....does anyone know if a perfect Asada performance would have reached 150+ points?
    I"m sorry, but what mistakes are you speaking of? All her jumps were clean. Yes we wcan go back to the spirals and the spins being less than perfect...but I don't know if that's considered glaring. She got all positive GOE on her elements (and no, I'm not asking to start a debate on how much she should have/have not received, just simply that she had them), so from their end she didn't make any mistakes?

    She's made more glaring mistakes in other competitions. In 2009 Worlds she missed a Salchow and got zero points for a spin. In TEB she didn't attempt a 3-flip at SA--she fell on teh flip and had a iffy landing on her 3-3. At GPF--she popped her flip in the SP and got the DG in the 3-3 and only could do a 3-2 at the final.

  13. #373
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I"m sorry, but what mistakes are you speaking of?
    I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but you should re-read Fan123's post more carefully.

  14. #374
    mylastduchess
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Fan123 View Post
    We must have posted around the same time. Would you mind sharing with us the break down of how Asada would have garnered 146 points?
    Its a rough estimate but she got a downgrade on her Flip which is around (3+ point difference ) points and single her Toe (4.40). so 7.40 points she lost plus lets say 1.5-2.00 + GOE on those jumps, 2-3 points increase in her PCS, I'm guesstimating her marks will be around 142 - 143.5 ish

  15. #375
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I"m sorry, but what mistakes are you speaking of? All her jumps were clean. Yes we wcan go back to the spirals and the spins being less than perfect...but I don't know if that's considered glaring. She got all positive GOE on her elements (and no, I'm not asking to start a debate on how much she should have/have not received, just simply that she had them), so from their end she didn't make any mistakes?

    She's made more glaring mistakes in other competitions. In 2009 Worlds she missed a Salchow and got zero points for a spin. In TEB she didn't attempt a 3-flip at SA--she fell on teh flip and had a iffy landing on her 3-3. At GPF--she popped her flip in the SP and got the DG in the 3-3 and only could do a 3-2 at the final.
    Oh...sorry, you misread my post...I said, "but had she..." In my eyes, I think Kim's peformance was pure perfection.

Page 25 of 35 FirstFirst ... 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •