Stojko opposes the ladies result | Page 26 | Golden Skate

Stojko opposes the ladies result

key65man

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
And I kind of think it would be too bad if the 3a started showing up more among the ladies to the detriment of a the 3-3, which is what happened with Mao's skating. It's great that she can do a 3a (most of the time.) But somehow, it's more satisfying that Yuna can do such an amazing, huge and technical PERFECT 3 lutz-3 toe.
The 3 lutz-3 toe is NOT an element that most women skaters have mastered. Not at all. It's still a reach, especially to pull it off with no flutz and with ease.
Mao made history by pulling of two 3 axles in an Olympic LP, so good for her and I happen to be great fan. But Mao cannot do a 3 lutz-3 toe the way Yuna can. Not even close. So who is to say which of them shows the greatest technical ability?
Yuna is certainly pushing the technical boundaries of her sport.
There is something to be said about quality and the quality of Yuna's jumps are breathtaking.

I mostly agree with you. And, I am not even a fan of Mao's Triple Axel.

I think it is about as difficult to do an exceptional 3Lz (GoE of 2 to 3 or, say, 2.5 on average) as a poor 3A with heavy prerotation, borderline under-rotation, and little aesthetic merit (say, GoE of 0.5 for the sake of argument). With everything else being equal (e.g., time bonus), the poor 3A would receive 8.7 on average while the exceptional Lutz 8.5. In that sense, I think the current score potential including base value and GoE for 3A is enough as far as fairness is concerned about Mao and Yuna. In other words, if you limit the issue down to Mao and Yuna, I absolutely agree that Mao fans and Japan have no real argument about it.

However, there is another issue regarding incentive and being at the frontier technique-wise as there is no denying that a great 3A is more difficult than a great 3Lz, and 3A assumes higher risk. That is to be accounted for.

The trick, in my opinion, is to "gradually" get to the point where the system gives enough incentives, yet keeps its integrity by not giving so much as to be exploited by skaters with "poor" 3A (e.g., the score potential for poor 3A "far" exceeding that of great 3Lz) -- I consider Mao's triple Axel poor. In that sense, if at all, a possible change in 3A would be small.

As far as Mao is concerned, the change would be about 1 or 1.5 point when she lands both 3A's including the combination. That would not motivate other skaters not equipped with proper technique and natural talent to stick with 3A. However, that adds a bit for skaters who have potential to do great 3A.

I expect a mid-point to have a bit bigger impact as an equalizer. If implemented wrongly, this will produce an army of skaters with poor technique. The change, if at all, should be very modest unless politics truly prevails upon it. Many countries other than Japan get benefits out of it. If they are short-sighted enough, they will make it happen in a manner that there is no proper way to reward "good" skaters. And, the mid-point will blur the line of good and bad techniques. Such a change cannot be defended, and I don't think it will happen that way.

If you really think about it, a mid-point for Mao is not very consequential for all practicality once you take politics into consideration (what a wonderful world of figure skating!). In Vancouver, the tech panel was very lenient on some top skaters (with an exception of Rachael) on under-rotation and other technical issues. Who is to say the phenomenon will not recur at a bigger stage like worlds and another Olympics (or even GPF)? For Mao, it is more about sticking it or not rather than 1/4 under-rotation.

I agree that any change about 3A will hurt triples if not properly devised and implemented. There is only country who benefits from a radical change about it right now. Once Mao retires -- 4 more years of non-sense on 3A, that is -- there will be far less pressure about it, as well. I think adding a bit more on 3A will not change the current trend of figure skating.
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Mao's triple axel is not poor at all. It is very light and they are great trple axelsl. I just feel that the skating community and the media have somehow decieded to favor Yuna since few years ago. The community could have made a big deal about Mao's triple axel and could make her unbeatble queen of ice. However somehow they decided to make Yuna as one of the greatest skater by using her 3-3. The 3-3 has been exectued by so many skaters before whether they were big or small or smooth or rough. Even some junior level skaters have attempted them before. But noone can do 3A except Mao right now and for her to do 3 of them should be truly appreciated. but the media and community did not want to. It has nothing to do Mao or 3A itself, it just the community deciede to go against her and decided to take Yuna's side. It is really unfortunate for Mao.I do not know the reason behind it. Is it politics related to money?(by Yuna winning how many people know that they can make profit out of her definitely more than when Mao won) Or they did not want 2 Japanese gold medalists in a row with Trasova as a coach? Or too many enthusiastic korean fans somehow pursuaded North American media to push Yuna instead of Mao by using cyber world? I defenitely believe that Yuna deserved the gold medal becasue after all she is the one who did clean program. But if the media and skating community have been on Mao's side for a while like they did for Yuna, the olympic result may have been different. I just can not understand all the hypes about Yuna at all. Except her 3-3, I do not see anything special about her skating.
To me, both of them are about same.It was just Mao's luck that they biased against her.
 
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Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
What "community" are you talking about? Never in my life occurred to me that the world of figure skating is one chummy community
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Maybe I should say atmosphere or air? I do not know how to describe it. But definitely Yuna was decided to be the greatest ,but not Mao. Yuna''s 3-3 got appreciated more. not Mao's 3A. It could have been the other way around, if the media wanted it be. Judges could have given more GOE to Mao especially spins and footworks, but they did not want to. The whole air went somehow against Mao. As I said before, to me. both of them are about the same. It depends on how each person wants to decide which is better.
 

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Maybe I should say atmosphere or air? I do not know how to describe it. But definitely Yuna was decided to be the greatest ,but not Mao. Yuna''s 3-3 got appreciated more. not Mao's 3A. It could have been the other way around, if the media wanted it be. Judges could have given more GOE to Mao especially spins and footworks, but they did not want to. The whole air went somehow against Mao. As I said before, to me. both of them are about the same. It depends on how each person wants to decide which is better.

At the Olympics, they were not the same. Mao made couple of obvious mistakes and Yuna did not.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
That makes more sense. Each event, there seems a skater everyone is pulling for. Sort of like a sentimental favorite. Yuna at the worlds 09, Alissa at US Nats last year, Carolina at the worlds 08, Mao at the worlds 07, etc. At the olympics though, Yuna had so much more momentum than everyone else it would've been absurd for her not to be favored. In a perfect world, past results shouldn't affect the outcome, but nonetheless Yuna earned right reputation justifiably. As for Mao's drop in reputation "points", I believe being beaten by lesser skaters early in the season really did her in. She should never allow herself to be beaten by skaters like Alena Leonova.
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
That makes more sense. Each event, there seems a skater everyone is pulling for. Sort of like a sentimental favorite. Yuna at the worlds 09, Alissa at US Nats last year, Carolina at the worlds 08, Mao at the worlds 07, etc. At the olympics though, Yuna had so much more momentum than everyone else it would've been absurd for her not to be favored. In a perfect world, past results shouldn't affect the outcome, but nonetheless Yuna earned right reputation justifiably. As for Mao's drop in reputation "points", I believe being beaten by lesser skaters early in the season really did her in. She should never allow herself to be beaten by skaters like Alena Leonova.
That is my point. Because of unfairly biased atmosphere or air or whatever you call it, Mao lost a momentum to do well beginning of this year. I do not believe at all that Yuna earned right reputation justifiably. Depending on the media and so son, Mao could have been favored and the error of the beginning of the season could not have happened.Yuna did well because the media and air was on her side. i say this again and agian. Yuna is no way superior to Mao. Their basic skills are about the same. Yuna may be a little faster. Mao is much more flexible. i did not get convinced from this year's program that Yuna is muscial at all. Yuna has a great 3-3 and Mao is the world's only one female skater who can execute 3 3A.
No matter how you try to convince me, I can not agree that Yuna is better skater than Mao at all. And I am sure you do not want to accept Mao is better than Yuna either.
Some may think Yuna's 3-3 is better and others think Mao's 3A worth more. But this time they took Yuna's side waaaaaay more than necessary and I fel it was Mao's bad luck.
It could have been the other way around.
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
At the Olympics, they were not the same. Mao made couple of obvious mistakes and Yuna did not.
Exactly. i totally agree with you. What I am trying to say that if from few years ago just like Yuna's 3-3, Mao's 3A was treated like something so amazing and if the media kept on talking about how great acoomplishment it is for woman to do so, and hyped up about it, maybe Mao had a great season this year and things may have been different even at the Olympic.
 

key65man

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Maybe I should say atmosphere or air? I do not know how to describe it. But definitely Yuna was decided to be the greatest ,but not Mao. Yuna''s 3-3 got appreciated more. not Mao's 3A. It could have been the other way around, if the media wanted it be. Judges could have given more GOE to Mao especially spins and footworks, but they did not want to. The whole air went somehow against Mao. As I said before, to me. both of them are about the same. It depends on how each person wants to decide which is better.

As for spins, I think Mao did not miss out on it. Actually, I believe she got more than she deserved on Flying Sit Spin for which she got level 4. Her "flying" did not exactly achieve the height with the body and legs. More importantly, when she "sits," she is supposed to maintain a good form with speed. However, Mao's form broke down as her body gradually dropped toward the ground. Most people would say that the spin does not deserve anything better than level 3.

I am not sure whether you are talking about step sequence or TL in PCS. As for step sequence, Mao made a couple of small mistakes, or her steps were imprecise. Mao does not have great edge control to beigin with. In the LP, Mao also ran out of steam by the time she got to the end of the program to do the step sequence, which probably contributed to her getting level 3 on it.

For TL, Mao did not have great transistions and footworks. Mao did not have good transitions.

Triple Axel is a great and difficult skill, which is why it gets 8.2 points for base value. However, the current system (CoP) looks at how well it is executed in addition to how difficult it is. When I said Mao's 3A was poor, I did not mean it was not difficult or it should not deserve appreciation. I meant that Mao did not execute it well enough.

There was little hype about Mao and her 3A because she had not managed to land it with a semblance of consistency this season. In fact, she was not that good with it last season, either. It took some Japanese coaches and the serious weight loss to land 3A by the end of this season.

Even when she managed to land them in the Olympics, many would disagree with you on how well they were executed. (Right now, Mao is not getting as much celebrated as you think she should not because there is a conspiracy against her but because the gold medal gets the most attention) Most important thing is that it is not the media hype that settles the score. It is rather the quality of works by the criteria we agreed upon before the competition began. I can subjectively appreciate the flexibility of Yuna, but the criteria we agreed upon would not agree on it. That is not a conspiracy. That is just how things are decided as objectively as possible.

So, do I think Mao performed well in Vancouver? Yes, I do. Worthy of a podium finish. Was it good enough to beat Yuna or for the gold? Not a chance. For the silver? Many even think that is debatable because the very lenient judging favored skaters with technical issues (Mao is one of them).

Again, 3A is a great skill. However, it is just one skill. It is like a home run in baseball. She hit 3 of them in Vancouver. But, Yuna hit two of her own with 3Lz and 3T and managed to collect lots of hits and therefore scored more runs. That was the story.

Since you are subscribing to a conspiracy theory, you will have to discover the truth (or a truth) on your own as the believers don't seem to listen to the others who hold different views. But, Japan is arguably the most influential country in the politics of figure skating. Mao has been a beneficiary of it. This time, Yuna did not make a mistake for politics to have a big role. That is how I see it.

Mao showed great determination without which she would not have managed to perform so well (including 3A) in Vancouver. I see that as her ultimate victory in Vancouver as not many foresaw it because she had been struggling greatly until the end of the season. Landing however many 3A cannot be equal to that. As for me, landing 3A at the Olympics is a thing of minor importance.

I am sure Mao is as determined for the worlds. As I hear that there have been some distractions for Yuna after the Olympics, I actually think Mao has a good chance to beat Yuna (assuming that Yuna may make mistakes). I wish her well.
 
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miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
As for spins, I think Mao did not miss out on it. Actually, I believe she got more than she deserved on Flying Sit Spin for which she got level 4. Her "flying" did not exactly achieve the height with the body and legs. More importantly, when she "sits," she is supposed to maintain a good form with speed. However, Mao's form broke down as her body gradually dropped toward the ground. Most people would say that the spin does not deserve anything better than level 3.

I am not sure whether you are talking about step sequence or TL in PCS. As for step sequence, Mao made a couple of small mistakes, or her steps were imprecise. Mao does not have great edge control to beigin with. In the LP, Mao also ran out of steam by the time she got to the end of the program to do the step sequence, which probably contributed to her getting level 3 on it.

For TL, Mao did not have great transistions and footworks. Mao did not have good transitions.

Triple Axel is a great and difficult skill, which is why it gets 8.2 points for base value. However, the current system (CoP) looks at how well it is executed in addition to how difficult it is. When I said Mao's 3A was poor, I did not mean it was not difficult or it should not deserve appreciation. I meant that Mao did not execute it well enough.

There was little hype about Mao and her 3A because she had not managed to land it with a semblance of consistency this season. In fact, she was not that good with it last season, either. It took some Japanese coaches and the serious weight loss to land 3A by the end of this season.

Even when she managed to land them in the Olympics, many would disagree with you on how well they were executed. (Right now, Mao is not getting as much celebrated as you think she should not because there is a conspiracy against her but because the gold medal gets the most attention) Most important thing is that it is not the media hype that settles the score. It is rather the quality of works by the criteria we agreed upon before the competition began. I can subjectively appreciate the flexibility of Yuna, but the criteria we agreed upon would not agree on it. That is not a conspiracy. That is just how things are decided as objectively as possible.

So, do I think Mao performed well in Vancouver? Yes, I do. Worthy of a podium finish. Was it good enough to beat Yuna or for the gold? Not a chance. For the silver? Many even think that is debatable because the very lenient judging favored skaters with technical issues (Mao is one of them).

Again, 3A is a great skill. However, it is just one skill. It is like a home run in baseball. She hit 3 of them in Vancouver. But, Yuna hit two of her own with 3Lz and 3T and managed to collect lots of hits and therefore scored more runs. That was the story.

Since you are subscribing to a conspiracy theory, you will have to discover the truth (or a truth) on your own as the believers don't seem to listen to the others who hold different views. But, Japan is arguably the most influential country in the politics of figure skating. Mao has been a beneficiary of it. This time, Yuna did not make a mistake for politics to have a big role. That is how I see it.

Mao showed great determination without which she would not have managed to perform so well (including 3A) in Vancouver. I see that as her ultimate victory in Vancouver as not many foresaw it because she had been struggling greatly until the end of the season. Landing however many 3A cannot be equal to that. As for me, landing 3A at the Olympics is a thing of minor importance.

I am sure Mao is as determined for the worlds. As I hear that there have been some distractions for Yuna after the Olympics, I actually think Mao has a good chance to beat Yuna (assuming that Yuna may make mistakes). I wish her well.

From this sentence, are you suggesting that you believe that Mao and other Japanese skaters benefit from JSU politicking? I just don't see that at all. I never feel the judges really favor Japanese skaters that much. The ones that do come on top at times (Mao, Dai, Miki) do because of their own abilities and talents. The Japanese skating federation don't use their influence to the extent the European and Russian skating feds do, even though they have the capability to do it now. And also about Mao's spins. I didn't hear many people complain about her levels she got for that, so I don't understand your comment on that.
 

key65man

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
From this sentence, are you suggesting that you believe that Mao and other Japanese skaters benefit from JSU politicking? I just don't see that at all. I never feel the judges really favor Japanese skaters that much. The ones that do come on top at times (Mao, Dai, Miki) do because of their own abilities and talents. The Japanese skating federation don't use their influence to the extent the European and Russian skating feds do, even though they have the capability to do it now. And also about Mao's spins. I didn't hear many people complain about her levels she got for that, so I don't understand your comment on that.

Japan Politiking in a way to benefit Mao? Nah. Not a chance! BTW, what do you mean by "favor Japanese skaters that much?" Just poking fun at you. A rhetorical q.

As for Mao's sit spin right after the 3F-2Lo, plz talk to some figure skating experts or authorities about form breaking like I described to find out differing opinions. I don't give a hoot about it because the difference is 0.5 point for level 4 and 3. Just trying to let the great composer know that the world may not be out to get Mao.
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Key65man, I just do not know if I should call it a conspiracy. Maybe fanatic Yuna fans played a big role by using especially Internet to convince people that Yuna is the greatest. The people who does not know anything about skating believe that Yuna is the best just because everyone else is saying so and media started to say that way as well. I feel Japanese fans are much more reserved and they do not push as much as Koreans do. I can not generalize it but Koreans are much more emotional and enthusiastic about Yuna than Japsnese are feeling about Mao. As miki88 said, I feel the same way about Japanese skating federation. It is definitely quieter. I see Japanese people is less pushy and demanding in general. I am saying through my experiences because I had both Japanese and Korean students. And they are quite different!! I am not saying either one is better or worse. But maybe somehow people around Yuna has changed "the air" to go her side. As I say this again and again, both girls gave special jumps to be appreciated and both of them are about the same considering various elements. If "the air" was on Mao's side, maybe the outcome of whole season may have been different.
 
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Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
I doubt any level of politiking was involved in the ladies event. Yes the Japanese Federation probably has the most financial resources and may be capable of influencing the judges, but I'm not reminded of a single occasion where a Japanese skater received undeservedly high marks. (Mao skates better at home and thus receives higher marks, but that's a different matter). If anything, the Japanese federation has invested its resources on lesser matters like buying out Nikolai Morozov and hosting several cheesefests. OTOH, I simply doubt the Korean federation has enough resources or pull. Unless Yuna herself is the secret puppet master behind the federation. One thing Yuna has going for her though is that she seems to be well liked by the right people. Maybe she sends them mean bibimbap every weekend, who knows? But I highly doubt her federation has anything to do with it.

And key65man, I'm not sure what you're referring to in regards to Mao's sit spin. But the technical panel was very generous to pretty much everyone except for Rachel.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Key65man, I just do not know if I should call it a conspiracy. Maybe fanatic Yuna fans played a big role by using especially Internet to convince people that Yuna is the greatest. The people who does not know anything about skating believe that Yuna is the best just because everyone else is saying so and media started to say that way as well. I feel Japanese fans are much more reserved and they do not push as much as Koreans do. I can not generalize it but Koreans are much more emotional and enthusiastic about Yuna than Japsnese are feeling about Mao. As miki88 said, I feel the same way about Japanese skating federation. It is definitely quieter. I see Japanese people is less pushy and demanding in general. I am saying through my experiences because I had both Japanese and Korean students. And they are quite different!! I am not saying either one is better or worse. But maybe somehow people around Yuna has changed "the air" to go her side. As I say this again and again, both girls gave special jumps to be appreciated and both of them are about the same considering various elements. If "the air" was on Mao's side, maybe the outcome of whole season may have been different.

You keep blabbing about "the air".. can you enlighten me a little bit more? :laugh: If the media declared Yuna is the best then so be it. If you think she's not then so be it. It's not a big deal.

Vancouver is over. Time to move on. Yuna won fair and square.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
That is my point. Because of unfairly biased atmosphere or air or whatever you call it, Mao lost a momentum to do well beginning of this year. I do not believe at all that Yuna earned right reputation justifiably. Depending on the media and so son, Mao could have been favored and the error of the beginning of the season could not have happened.Yuna did well because the media and air was on her side. i say this again and agian. Yuna is no way superior to Mao. Their basic skills are about the same. Yuna may be a little faster. Mao is much more flexible. i did not get convinced from this year's program that Yuna is muscial at all. Yuna has a great 3-3 and Mao is the world's only one female skater who can execute 3 3A.
No matter how you try to convince me, I can not agree that Yuna is better skater than Mao at all. And I am sure you do not want to accept Mao is better than Yuna either.
Some may think Yuna's 3-3 is better and others think Mao's 3A worth more. But this time they took Yuna's side waaaaaay more than necessary and I fel it was Mao's bad luck.
It could have been the other way around.

:rolleye: Why not just hold the Olympics in Japan to get the "air" on Mao's side?

Yu-na was a heavy favorite in the eyes of numerous people with no personal interest invested in her win. Why? She was winning all over the place, with huge margins. Justifiably so. Her talent is dominant in the current crop of skaters. If you do not see it, I'm sorry because you're really missing out on a wonderfully talented skater. As for the hype (which I think you're referring to), Yu-na's first season completed in complete health was phenomenal (she won everything except GPF) with two outstanding, gorgeous programs, while Mao's 08-09 was not as great (with Masquerade not really helping her). That was the season right before the Olympics. During the Olympic season, Yu-na won every competition she participated in, while Mao didn't even make it to GPF. Yu-na seemed to be on a halcyon stride, while Mao was in a slight slump. Yu-na beat Mao in 4CC and with huge margins in Worlds and TEB. I don't blame anyone for expecting Yu-na to beat Mao again in Vancouver. What's really so wrong about that?

As for the 3A... Well, I won't even start.

Depending on the media and so son, Mao could have been favored and the error of the beginning of the season could not have happened.Yuna did well because the media and air was on her side.

So she bombed at TEB and Rostelecom because the media considered her co-favorites with Yu-na in France and the heavy favorite to win in Russia? I really don't get a word of what you're saying.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Actually, I think he's saying that Mao erred because the media wasn't on her side at the beginning of the season. I don't get it either.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
If anything, the air that mattered would be in judges, not in the media.

In Edge, there was an interesting post of an interview with one of the Olympic judges. The judge says he would say that 10% of the judges are completely honest. He talks about the concept of "corridor" in judging PCS. If you are within the corridor, you are "safe."

Since the corridor is a group behavior, I think that judges refer to previous competition results in deciding PCS. If Skater A is supposed to receive from 7.5 to 8.5 in PCS, you should give scores around that range. I also think that the concept of the corridor may be applicable in GOE.

In judging PCS and GOE, reputation marks would play a role. Otherwise, it's inexplicable that Kozuka didn't receive among the very best scores on SS and that Johnny didn't receive huge GOE on his 3A.

The technical panel as well, I hear that reputation matters. If you are known to be prone to certain errors, the tech panel would be looking more closely whereas others may get the benefit of doubt.
 
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prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Prokofiev, you seem to be saying that the air of favouritism was surrounding YuNa and it helped propel her to win. Well, she is the first favourite to win at the Olympics for a long time (Katarina Witt was the last, I think. I don't know what "air" surrounded Oksana in 1994 :p), so being considered a favourite isn't automatically good.

But YuNa skated well, and perhaps her bonuses (such as on GoE's, etc.) were a reflection of favouritism, too. However, why do you think she had that over Mao? As others pointed out, she had a phenomenal season when she won the 2009 Worlds, and it was certainly not just her 3-3. It was her programs, too...they seem to have struck a certain chord in many veterans and casuals of the sport. TEB 2009 was then followed closely, and her preparedness/dominance at that event pretty much sealed the momentum. Her 3-3 remained fairly consistent, and she still had two nicely-packaged programs.

Mao also lost momentum/air since her 2008 Worlds win. Well, I believe the downturn started in the 2008-2009 season because her Masquerade LP was not generally the best-received. The music was driving and repetitive, a stark contrast to her usually light, lyrical style. Her Claire de Lune SP saved her from losing too much of her signature style, but she was also not too consistent in earning ratified/clean 3axels. 2009-2010 took a sharper turn for the worse, stylistically, and she had even more troubles with her jumps (not just the 3axel.) Bells of Moscow is her worst LP since...forever. Mao redeemed herself at the Olympics for the most part, but I don't think her programs were able to rally judge/fan support too well.

These are a few ways in which Team YuNa helped to shift the positive airs behind them, and how Mao's team lost some of the positive airs they used to have. I don't think it is fair to say that "airs" made YuNa win at the Olympics. YuNa has been winning technically and stylistically for a whole year.

I also agree with Bennett, unfortunately...I don't think most judges mark exactly the performances that are in front of their eyes; they refer to past competitions for what is "expected" or "appropriate" to give to a skater, so you see what people call "reputation" or "trend"-based judging. It's lame.
 
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blahblahblah

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Even if 3A worth 3 points higher that 3L, it would made no difference in outcome.
Change the rule again, that is the only way for Mao to win or pray that Yuna slip and fall.
 

Johnnnn

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Let me just quote Dick button. It was his answer to the question about wheather the current judging systme is rewarding the quad enough but I think it easily applies to the triple axel as well.

"Absolutely, it's also rewarding all the other things go around with it. and What is a jump? A jump is a movement in the air, it has to have a beginning, a middle, and an end. It has to have an entrance and a form behind it. You cannot simply say that it's the number of revolutions only. Yes they give it enough, I wish they give some of the other things a little more"

Also, this video as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA4j4Eezv14

I think Yuna's GOE is easily justified regardeless of favouritism and her PCS as well. If mao and joannie are getting 68s then 71 for Yuna is just about right.

Also, people who say Yuna won because of favouritism simply don't have any legitimate argument.

She was under so much pressure not just from her country but from the entire skating world,

and she was the only top lady that skated a clean program that night.

Triple axel can only help you when you have similar technical content for the rest of the program.

Going for 2 at the beginning and cheaping out on the rest of the program + making mistakes

don't really get you near the gold medal.
 
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