Yes, the technical difficulty of a program with 4 triples, a double flip, a double axel, and a single toeloop. Quite challenging for a skater of her callibre.Originally Posted by DesertRoad
Yes, the technical difficulty of a program with 4 triples, a double flip, a double axel, and a single toeloop. Quite challenging for a skater of her callibre.
ummmm....are you talking about the two triple axels?
yes, i said 4 triples, 2 axels, a flip, and a loop. however, she also performed a double flip-double loop-loop, a single toeloop, and a double axel. Yu-Na had six TRIPLES. How could Elvis ever say the technical difficulty was greater than Yu-Na?
Because Elivis believes for a woman to accomplish two triple axels takes a greater degree of difficulty, which is not an unreasonable argument.
Not under the IJS. Look at the base value for their elements.
KIM: 60.90
ASADA: 55.86
The proof is evident.
Just because the system doesn't award it accordingly doesn't mean it is not more difficult. I think Elvis brings up a good issue that should be discussed. And he just thinks the gap should have been closer and many people shares his opinion on that.
On one hand, I agree that this issue should be looked at more closely and bring a discussion, on whether Triple Axles and Quads should receive more credit.
However, in Mao's case last night, Yes, having two triple axles is wildly amazing, but not having a Lutz or Salchow show signs of lacking full technical ability. Mao skated great, and her axles helped her earn a Silver. Not having a Lutz or Salchow, plus other mistakes put her out of the running for gold.
Remember guys.... you should get awarded to do the tough stuff, but you'll do even better when you can do the easier stuff as well....
On theory, I would totally agree, but it was Kim's extraordinary performance last night that kept Asada out of the running for gold, evident by the 150 point score. An added Lutz or Salchow by Asada would not have made the difference or a mistake-free performance...from a fan's perspective.
This guy is really just embarrassing himself now , or should be , if his ego would allow it.
Of course he's entitled to his opinion, as we all are, but his lack of objectivity , of any real constructive input , his desire to have one element trump everything else, ensures that his opinion just doesn't carry the weight he would like it to. Talk about shark jumping.
The ISU tried having a straight jump competition separate from World's or the GP .. but the fact that it never got much attention just goes to show that no-one is much interested in just watching skaters jump. Similarly, a straight spin competition would be pretty boring too.
Maybe CoP will have some future adjustments in regard to various combos ..but Elvis isn't arguing for tinkering or fine tuning, he wants the big jumps to not only outweigh the other elements individually , but to outweigh the other elements combined. I 'm not even remotely interested in what he has to say, anymore.
I get that Mao did 2 3axels, I truly do and I get that's really difficult. But she also didn't do 3lutzs, and she didn't do a 3/3 or even a double axel/3toe. And I'm trying to understand really hard why Elvis thinks that's somehow immaterial to the discussion. Its great that Mao has perfected that one amazing jump. But that doesnt' mean that somehow gives Mao a free pass when it comes to the other jumps. And I remember when Lambiel won an Olympic silver medal (landing a quad) but no 3axel, Elvis commented on the fact that we have " an Olympic silver medalist without a 3axel" Well Elvis we have an Olympic silver medalist without a 3lutz. So really the guy seems to have a double standard.
I mean Kim did a 3lutz/3toe and a double axel/3toe. Mao couldn't even land a single solo 3toe cleanly. I guess according to Elvis everyone should just go out there land the hardest jump and then we can ignore everything else. He seems to forget that some jumps are harder for others.
That's not true. Mao got 131 with a popped jump, AND an underrotated jump (which cost her points and GOE because that combo clearly had problems)... IF Mao were to add a 3lutz an get credit at for her 3flip, she'd already be over 140. And that's not even including the extra GOE she'd get for those clean jumps. Also if she were to do a sequence so she could get a 3toe and a 3sal her score would increase even more.On theory, I would totally agree, but it was Kim's extraordinary performance last night that kept Asada out of the running for gold, evident by the 150 point score. An added Lutz or Salchow by Asada would not have made the difference or a mistake-free performance...from a fan's perspective.
Not to mention the fact that Mao's PCS would probably increase at enormous levels if she were to do an 8 triple program. I suspect that not having a 3lutz really hurts Mao PCS wise with the judges. So this idea that Mao could never ever come near Yu-na's score, isn't even true.
Last edited by bekalc; 02-26-2010 at 11:06 PM.
We also have an Olympic gold medalist without a triple loop...
Again, you can apply this to Yuna. She couldn't even land a single triple loop cleanly and to be fair Mao's toe pick got stuck in the ice while totally threw her off going into that jump.
Well Mao can't do a 3sal either. For me Mao's 3sal and Yu-na's 3loop all cancel each other. But the 3lutz is a big thing Mao is missing. To argue that its not is just ridiculous.
Agian, using this logic, YuNa is missing the triple axel so don't the lutz and axel cancel each other out as well?? They both can do 4 of the 6 triples.
I didn't find the thread title very nice, either, even though not comparable as another, titled "Bitter, little man" which seems to have already been removed (I myself am one of, if not only, the ones who reported that thread to the moderators).
Last edited by Bennett; 02-26-2010 at 11:14 PM.
Okay that's cool If you want to say the 3sal cances out the 3loop, and the 3axel/2toe cancels out the 3lutz and the 3axel cancel each other out. (Okay) But Yu-na does a double axel/3toe, and Mao does nothing to cancel THAT out.
:lol: I know I say this and do get that everything else Mao did to cancel out Yu-na was more difficult I do get that the 3axel/2toe is harder and the 3axel is harder than a 3liutz).. But I'm still sort of trying to make a point that Mao by making the jumping layout she chooses, doesn't really benefit from the triple axels the way she should. I will totally agree that in the end Mao's program is harder. But because Mao is missing a lot of technical stuff that the other ladies are doing, she gives up a lot of points...
Even if Mao were to leave out her 3lutz. But do a 3axel and a 3flip/3loop and a 3flip/3toe like she did in 2008, I have a feeling that the judges would actually be a bit more impressed with that because Mao's showing that she can master all kinds of different tricks.....Not just one. All I'm saying is that its like since Mao left Arturian and became world champ. Mao has decided to put all of her eggs in the 3axel basket and essentially let everything else stagnant.
Last edited by bekalc; 02-26-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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