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Thread: So, what is Elvis going to complain about this morning?

  1. #76
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I think Elvis makes points on the jumping aspects of figure skating. It is a SPORT! No?

    most female fans are more interested in how a skater emotes during performance. Is it QUANTIFIABLE?

    some female and male fans give the two aspects of figure skating equal importance? Yes?

    some, like Elvis give the edge to difficulty. Why not?
    I could go on and on at length at how utterly wrong/sexist/stupid the bit in bold is, but i think i'll refrain...

    Ant

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppylove View Post
    I know this thread is about Elvis, so forgive me. BUT.

    Apparently, Plush went on some Japanese TV programme AFTER the ladies final and said Mao should have been awarded more marks as she made history by landing 3 TAs in the Olympics.

    While I know in my head that it is entirely within his rights to do so, it somehow doesn't leave a good impression in my mind. BTW, this has nothing to do with my opinion of the ladies event.

    I blame Takahashi. If only he had landed that b****y quad and won the competition...
    Concerning Mao's marks on her 3As: Whether or not 3As deserve a higher base value will be up to the ISU to decide when they convene after this competitive season. The thing is, we already have the rules in place during the Olympics and we have to abide by them. I am not an expert concerning GOEs so I will leave that alone. I understand where Plushenko is coming from and why he is frustrated, but I think he should have tried to work through the system (i.e. going through the proper channels). I'm with Tim Goebel on this one when he said it would be better if we could open dialogue with the ISU and invite the skaters, coaches and specialists to hear their opinions. Evgeni could definitely make his case there, and he could have the quad-trailblazing men (Stojko, Goebel, etc.) and for the triple, Mao and Midori. This would have made a much more favorable impression.

    About Takahashi: Yeah, I know. But I can't really blame him, considering his surgery. I don't know if he'll ever perform his quad consistently again, or if he didn't have enough time to recover to perform that jump in Olympic competition. If he'd pulled a Shizuka, we wouldn't be having the Plushenko vs. Lysacek thing... Oh, well.
    Last edited by Ren; 03-01-2010 at 11:41 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    Kristi Yamaguchi and someone else, can't remember who it was, were also on a program saying the same thing as Elvis--that the triple axel should garner more points. So why is it that only Elvis gets all this negative reaction to his OPINION?
    No, no, this is not a negative reaction to Elvis, but rather to what Plush did. In fact, my feeling on Elvis' comments is "shrug - that's his point of view". What made me frown was the fact that Plush, who had argued that he should've been the Oly champion not EL based on the fact he had landed a quad and EL hadn't (again, not particularly bothered, as I was personally rooting for Takahashi who derserved the bronze but certainly not higher based on that performance), went on Japanese TV to say in the context of the ladies final.

    I don't have any problem with any commentators or retired athletes expressing their opinions on any events. I also wouldn't have had any problems with Plush if:

    1. There had been no issue with him openly discrediting the person who had won the competition he had participated in prior to all this.
    2. He had done this BEFORE the ladies event finished.
    3. He always had some deep-rooted interests in ladies FS.
    4. He always had been mates with Mao.
    5. Mao had won the competition.

    I'm sure FS fans in Japan were quite disappointed that Mao didn't win and quite naturally so. For him then to do what he did, the reaction it brings out in me is "Oh DEAR GOD, he's seen the chance and is at it AGAIN." I cannot even make an analogy, since I cannot imagine any of the ladies skaters, ice dancers, pairs, skiers, speed skaters etc. doing this, no matter how outraged they may have been about the outcome in their OWN event.

    Maybe I'm a bit too old-fashioned about the whole sportsmanship thing...

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    Concerning Mao's marks on her 3As: Whether or not 3As deserve a higher base value will be up to the ISU to decide when they convene after this competitive season. The thing is, we already have the rules in place during the Olympics and we have to abide by them. I am not an expert concerning GOEs so I will leave that alone. I understand where Plushenko is coming from and why he is frustrated, but I think he should have tried to work through the system (i.e. going through the proper channels). I'm with Tim Goebel on this one when he said it would be better if we could open dialogue with the ISU and invite the skaters, coaches and specialists to hear their opinions. Evgeni could definitely make his case there, and he could have the quad-trailblazing men (Stojko, Goebel, etc.) and for the triple, Mao and Midori. This would have made a much more favorable impression.


    Precisely!


    About Takahashi: Yeah, I know. But I can't really blame him, considering his surgery. I don't know if he'll ever perform his quad consistently again, or if he didn't have enough time to recover to perform that jump in Olympic competition. If he'd pulled a Shizuka, we wouldn't be having the Plushenko vs. Lysacek thing... Oh, well.

    I know... Of course I don't blame him! I was delighted to see him skate as well as he did.

  5. #80
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I dont know about base value changing cause how much it would change things, I think Goe became the new fashion in these Olympics. And the point in judging I dont get now more than pcs. Mao could have gotten 1.20 or 1.80 for her triple axels and I would still be ok or Yuna could have gotten 0.80 fr her spiral and I would have nothing to debate. Just examples.

    I dont think they reward the exceptional with Goe or what it is done on ice as they see it, so since Mao had not much flow out 0.80 Goe was enough. When I think of Goe the first word that comes in mind is approximately. If they put Goe according to what they see, two really clean programs with all the jumps landed and nice flow, good extentions, great spins and artistry would have meant that Weir should have been the Olympic Champion as one friend wondered. (example again)

  6. #81
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I could go on and on at length at how utterly wrong/sexist/stupid the bit in bold is, but i think i'll refrain...

    Ant
    Don't refrain, please explain!

    I'm a simple minded female viewer. I don't understand what jumps are. All I want is the girl who is dressed the prettiest to win!

  7. #82
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chloepoco
    Kristi Yamaguchi and someone else, can't remember who it was, were also on a program saying the same thing as Elvis--that the triple axel should garner more points. So why is it that only Elvis gets all this negative reaction to his OPINION?
    Because Elvis is saying Mao deserved to win because of that one jump, Kristi's not saying that. She's just saying Mao deserved some more points which is something I agree about.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Because Elvis is saying Mao deserved to win because of that one jump, Kristi's not saying that. She's just saying Mao deserved some more points which is something I agree about.
    Mao had two big mistakes in the LP 131 points for a program with 4 triples is more than enough!

  9. #84
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Elvis didn't say Mao deserved to win because of one jump. He just said the gap should be closer, which is not different from what a lot of people here think.

  10. #85
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunrock View Post
    Don't refrain, please explain!

    I'm a simple minded female viewer. I don't understand what jumps are. All I want is the girl who is dressed the prettiest to win!
    i've written too many grumpy posts of late so decided not to but i couldn't let the unblievably stupid comment go by without comment.

    Ant

  11. #86
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Uh... Sarcasm, ever heard of it? D'oh!!!

  12. #87
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppylove View Post
    No, no, this is not a negative reaction to Elvis, but rather to what Plush did. In fact, my feeling on Elvis' comments is "shrug - that's his point of view". What made me frown was the fact that Plush, who had argued that he should've been the Oly champion not EL based on the fact he had landed a quad and EL hadn't (again, not particularly bothered, as I was personally rooting for Takahashi who derserved the bronze but certainly not higher based on that performance), went on Japanese TV to say in the context of the ladies final.

    I don't have any problem with any commentators or retired athletes expressing their opinions on any events. I also wouldn't have had any problems with Plush if:

    1. There had been no issue with him openly discrediting the person who had won the competition he had participated in prior to all this.
    2. He had done this BEFORE the ladies event finished.
    3. He always had some deep-rooted interests in ladies FS.
    4. He always had been mates with Mao.
    5. Mao had won the competition.

    I'm sure FS fans in Japan were quite disappointed that Mao didn't win and quite naturally so. For him then to do what he did, the reaction it brings out in me is "Oh DEAR GOD, he's seen the chance and is at it AGAIN." I cannot even make an analogy, since I cannot imagine any of the ladies skaters, ice dancers, pairs, skiers, speed skaters etc. doing this, no matter how outraged they may have been about the outcome in their OWN event.
    Just think, 3 medals awarded - one for Tech, one for PC, one for Combined.
    Maybe I'm a bit too old-fashioned about the whole sportsmanship thing...
    What a nice post about this whole issue of Elvis and the attitude of Plushenko.

    They have their opinions, and I have mine. Regardless of whether he came out first or last, Stephane Lambiel is for the best skater to show how Music is related to in this Sport. Nothing wrong with Jumps being the whole of the Sport, but one MUST take out the music, and judge the Jumps on their own merit. I would still enjoy that as I enjoy the Diving comps.

    One answer to satisfy me would be to separate the Tech (elements only - no music) and the PCs with music. My sexist self says that many fans will object to the missing Artistry(?) without the musiic in the Tech portion.

    Just think, 3 Medals to be awarded for Tech, PC, and Overall Combined.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Just think, 3 Medals to be awarded for Tech, PC, and Overall Combined.
    That is reasonable enough.

    I would think that this Olympic Men's Champion won't win any of these three competitions, unless of course, the judges want to give it to him.

  14. #89
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    hysteria much? Maybe the japanese tv went to Plush and not Plush to them, does it cross the mind that he didnt chase the media for the interview?? he said 3axels should have been valued more and Mao should have more Goe, pretty much what many people said in the forums also, he didnt say Yuna should not have won or Mao should have. If he had talked before the end of the competition there would be more upset because then you would say that he talked like influencing the outcome. Also if he had been a personal friend of Mao that would have come out as a personal preference of who he would want to win instead of preference to change the system. He has talked about Miki and quad also in the past.

    Actually he has been talking about the change of values since 2008 worlds. And have you questioned why they ask him? Cause I cant imagine Plush left the russian house after Mao competed, went to the japanese and said hello, I want to make an announcement.

    No I dont want music out of programs also, because some appreciate only Stephane or Takahashi because they better relate to music, I can appreciate those two and many more, and I have watched figures competition in videos and while exciting first time then it was boring.
    Have it occurred to people that those who judgeand awe a skater by his artistry and musicality have the same one - side view of the sport as the ones who say that quad and jumps are the biggest thing there?

    We can always mute the sound on tv and watch the elements if we dont like the way it is now. As a matter of fact the last two years sp programs are more interesting to me artistically than the Lp, where it is clear most skaters go along by checking the elements one by one, with no much time in-between.
    Last edited by seniorita; 03-02-2010 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #90
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    There is another way to give a greater advantage to a triple Axel for ladies, while at the same time emphasizing the "complete program" idea. This is the old idea of an extra bonus for doing all five (or six) triples.

    Suppose that you gave +2 bonus points for doing any five of the six triples, and +4 for doing all six? That way a skater without a triple Axel would have an incentive to work on her so-called "nemisis jump." If you could do 3T, 3S, 3F, and 3Lz but not 3Lo, getting that 3Lo up to par would be worth a total of 7 extra points, compared to 3.5 if she had to do a double Axel instead.

    A skater with a triple Axel would have the advantage that she could leave out one of the other triples (but not two) and still get the bonus. And if she really went for broke she could get an extra 4 points, whereas no more that 2 extra bonus points would be available to a skater without a triple Axel.

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