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Thread: Your TOP 5 MOST UNDERSCORED/OVERSCORED programs from the Olympics?

  1. #16
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Mao Asada SP, LP were underscored. (see explanation below)
    Rachael Flatt LP was underscored. Random downgrades. Her flips were fine, as good as Mirai's questionable flip that's clearly rotated on ice. At Skate America, Sandra was saying how she had so much transition, hard transition, going into her 2 lutzes. None of that was reflected in her GOE.

    I just watched Figure Skating Review/Preview with Terry Gannon, Kristi Yamguchi, and Peter.
    Peter: 3A-2T harder jump
    Kristi: harder jump, yes. Mao got lower GOE on a much more difficult jump combination
    Michael Weiss: Mao Asada 3A-2T, which blows my mind that it's not worth more. I mean, you ask any guy in figure skating that if they'd rather do a 3A-2T or a 3F-3T or 3Z-3T, they would always say the triple triple combination is easier. The front end take off on the triple axel is much harder so the fact that it's lower... A woman did a 3A-2T in a short program and I think that should be valued higher but Yuna gained her points because she executed well.

    So there you have it, all 3 thought the 3A-2T are a much harder combination than the 3Z-3T and the base should be worth higher. However, they would give higher GOE to Yuna and higher base to Mao. In reality, Mao got lower base and lower GOE. Real skaters have spoken and unanimously agreed that 3A-2T base should be higher.
    I read Takeshi Honda in Asahi newspaper saying he personally feels that 3A should be rewarded more. I agree that 3A-2T and 4T-3T could have higher base values. I think Plush should have gotten a bigger lead in tech scores in his SP, compared to guys who did 3Lz-3T or 3F-3T. Several ladies can do 3-3, but no one can do 4-3.

  2. #17
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohatta View Post
    Enough with this tired harping on counting triples. Didn't this competition prove that she DOES get penalised for lack of triples? More jumps, more points. Laura has quality and charisma oozing out of her skating. If Yu-Na did just three triples, she'd get way more tham 105 points.

    Kiira did both 3lutz and 3flip and ended up with 108. Where's her European bonus? She didn't get any, and neither did Laura.
    And I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is relevant to this discussion. If you're going to be counting triples, it's worth noting that Mao Asada only landed 4 ratified triples. Yes I know 2 of them were 3A...but if we're going to play this game, I just want that to be noted.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I read Takeshi Honda in Asahi newspaper saying he personally feels that 3A should be rewarded more. I agree that 3A-2T and 4T-3T could have higher base values. I think Plush should have gotten a bigger lead in tech scores in his SP, compared to guys who did 3Lz-3T or 3F-3T. Several ladies can do 3-3, but no one can do 4-3.
    LOL. You meant Lysacek, Takahashi, Oda them ladies can do 3-3, but only the man, Plushenko can do 4-3? No wonder Plushenko said the "ladies" should compete this week.

  4. #19
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    LOL. You meant Lysacek, Takahashi, Oda them ladies can do 3-3, but only the man, Plushenko can do 4-3? No wonder Plushenko said the "ladies" should compete this week.
    No, I didn't say that the quad is a sign of masculinity. But just trying to say that 3-3 is easier than 4-3.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    No, I didn't say that the quad is a sign of masculinity. But just trying to say that 3-3 is easier than 4-3.
    I know. Kidding.

    Terry: Did you feel that [pressure] in 92?
    Kristi: No, the pressure was on Midori. Leading up to the competition was the triple axel, the triple axel, the triple axel. And the whole question was can my program hold up to her program with the triple axel. I felt like I was the underdog coming into the Olympics. And I played that way, I kept telling myself that and deflected the pressure.

    So, from first hand source, Kristi was the underdog in '92, not co-favorite like some posters said before.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Mao Asada SP, LP were underscored. (see explanation below)
    Rachael Flatt LP was underscored. Random downgrades. Her flips were fine, as good as Mirai's questionable flip that's clearly rotated on ice. At Skate America, Sandra was saying how she had so much transition, hard transition, going into her 2 lutzes. None of that was reflected in her GOE.

    I just watched Figure Skating Review/Preview with Terry Gannon, Kristi Yamguchi, and Peter.
    Peter: 3A-2T harder jump
    Kristi: harder jump, yes. Mao got lower GOE on a much more difficult jump combination
    Michael Weiss: Mao Asada 3A-2T, which blows my mind that it's not worth more. I mean, you ask any guy in figure skating that if they'd rather do a 3A-2T or a 3F-3T or 3Z-3T, they would always say the triple triple combination is easier. The front end take off on the triple axel is much harder so the fact that it's lower... A woman did a 3A-2T in a short program and I think that should be valued higher but Yuna gained her points because she executed well.
    Terry Gannon: Do you think that they will go back and weight the 3A more?
    Michael Weiss: Absolutely, the 3A and 4T are the most difficult jumps to do and should be rewarded I don't want it to be a jump contest, I like the other aspect of the sport, I like things to be executed really well. a 3F-3T executed well should be worth more than a bad 3A.

    So there you have it, all 3 thought the 3A-2T are a much harder combination than the 3Z-3T and the base should be worth higher. However, they would give higher GOE to Yuna and higher base to Mao. In reality, Mao got lower base and lower GOE. Real skaters have spoken and unanimously agreed that 3A-2T base should be higher.
    Mao declared she will skate until Sochi and now many insist 3A should be rewarded higher than now.
    Then how about raising the base value of 3A step by step until Mao can beat Yuna in every competition with that 3A?
    20 point would be enough? or 30 point?
    I wonder what will happen if someday Yuna come back with tremendous 3A-3T.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Mao Asada SP, LP were underscored. (see explanation below)

    So there you have it, all 3 thought the 3A-2T are a much harder combination than the 3Z-3T and the base should be worth higher. However, they would give higher GOE to Yuna and higher base to Mao. In reality, Mao got lower base and lower GOE. Real skaters have spoken and unanimously agreed that 3A-2T base should be higher.
    Here, you cannot say "underscored". You say "underscored" when the skater gets lower scores than s/he should within the boundary of the scoring system.
    Mao already knew that two combinations' base values were about the same and she still insisted on a 3A combo and didn't make it huge enough to get high GOE.

    Well, I would say 3A-2T is more difficult than 3Z-3T simply because 3A is more difficult than 3Z.
    Lol, adding triple after a triple jump suddenly sounds so easy. I wonder why top skaters like Miki and Joannie cannot just add 1 more turn at the end.

    And I would say top 3 favorites were all overscored.

  8. #23
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Yeah, I agree that top three lady skaters were overscored. I also feel that perhaps ladies generally received inflated scores. This may be a trend we've been seeing this season. But at this time, Yuna's scores are exceedingly high compared to her previous ones, even if considering the fact that it's the first time she's ever put two clean programs together. Mao getting her personal LP best here is also strange. She had had better performances with or without two 3As. Rochette also received over 200 despite the two major mistakes. I wonder if they are raising the scores higher and higher.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pohatta View Post
    Enough with this tired harping on counting triples. Didn't this competition prove that she DOES get penalised for lack of triples? More jumps, more points. Laura has quality and charisma oozing out of her skating. If Yu-Na did just three triples, she'd get way more tham 105 points.

    Kiira did both 3lutz and 3flip and ended up with 108. Where's her European bonus? She didn't get any, and neither did Laura.
    ITA. I'm also very tired of these ridiculous comments of beauty points and European points. As far as I know, the judges are all over the world and don't give score for nationalities or beauty. Is it so hard for some US people to admit that there might be better skaters in the world than US? USA has every year new young competitors so it's clear that their PCS aren't that high yet. You should change the system of choosing the competitors to the international competitions. Isn't that correct that you choose your skaters to worlds and olympics in one competition, in nationals? In Finland they had the whole fall semester to show personal bests and then the 3 best were chosen to Europeans. Now it was easy when Jenni Vähämaa wasn't in, but the system allows you to prove your talent more than in one competition when the pressure is huge.

    I don't understand why Leonova got so good PCS. I really don't like her skating. As a Finn I think Kiira was underscored in PCS. Laura got almost 10 points more in PCS, that I don't really get. BTW, I read from the newspaper that Kiira is planning to change her long-time choreographist, I think that's a good decicion.

  10. #25
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    Was there ugly ladies on the competition? Idid not notice any.
    oh, i forgot my own opinion. I fact, i don't have my own, because i lack techinal knowledge. But the commentator in eurosport expected Mirai to be near Joannie and thouhgt she will finish ahead of Laura before the scores were shown.
    Last edited by TT_Fin; 02-27-2010 at 07:54 AM.

  11. #26
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Underscored - Pang & Tong SP
    Johnny Weir LP
    Tanith & Ben, OD + FD
    Rachel Flatt - LP
    Takahiko Kozuka - SP + LP

    Overscored - Kavaguti & Smirnov (I do like them, but they were not at their best) - SP
    Domnina & Shabalin - OD & FD
    Last edited by iluvtodd; 02-27-2010 at 08:15 AM.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Morning Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Mao getting her personal LP best here is also strange. She had had better performances with or without two 3As.
    Mao's personal LP best is 133.13 at 2007 Worlds with 3F-3L, 3A and 2 3Lz ( without the edge call rule ).

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
    Mao's personal LP best is 133.13 at 2007 Worlds with 3F-3L, 3A and 2 3Lz ( without the edge call rule ).
    Opps sorry. I also found out that Mao scored over 132 twice in 2007-08.

  14. #29
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    6 Overscored:
    Dube/Davison SP
    Lysacek SP
    Flatt SP
    Ando SP
    Asada LP
    Chan LP

    (NBC didn't bother to even show Lepisto's LP so I can't comment on it.)

    4 Underscored:
    Mukhortova/Trankov SP
    Takahashi SP
    Kozuka LP
    Weir LP

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    "I'm also very tired of these ridiculous comments of beauty points and European points. As far as I know, the judges are all over the world and don't give score for nationalities or beauty. Is it so hard for some US people to admit that there might be better skaters in the world than US? USA has every year new young competitors so it's clear that their PCS aren't that high yet. You should change the system of choosing the competitors to the international competitions. Isn't that correct that you choose your skaters to worlds and olympics in one competition, in nationals?"

    In my opinion, four Americans were undermarked in order to keep them from getting a certain medal or placement : Johnny (kept from being in gala or possibly deserved bronze) D/W (I thought they should have won, but many, many think V/M were better, so I may be in the minority here) B/A (kept off the podium so Russia wouldn't be completely shut out) and Rachael (kept down in case there was a splat-fest of the three chosen ones, Yuna, Mao and Joannie). I also think both pairs should have been a few places higher, too, come to think of it, although neither of them were podium threats. Evan was marked fairly within the CoP. Mirai (possibly) would have had edge or UR calls had she skated before the special ones. But since they all did well, they could give her full credit, knowing she would not somehow slip ahead of one of them. This is my opinion only, of course, I was not on the judging panel.

    I'm not being sarcastic or confrontational here, but please, somebody tell me of another performance where someone other than an American did a seemingly clean performance only to get a low score because of invisible UR's and edge calls.

    I don't mean Evgeni or Mao, either. Evgeni and Mao may have gotten underscored, too, but for a different reason. The difficulty of their special tricks were not appreciated enough (as is the case with Jeret Peterson, the freestyle skiier with a hurricane trick).

    At first I loved the CoP. I loved seeing underdogs like Julia Sebesteyen or Jeremy Abbott come from like 7th place and win. But now, even more than 6.0, it is used to prop up the chosen ones. Is there a maximum number of points it is possible to get? Because it seems like if they like someone, they can just pile point after point on them and keep anyone from catching up.

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