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Thread: Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

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  1. #1
    Rinkside
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    Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxAN5rYRqaU

    found this while utubing few min ago.
    kinda interesting how they mark each jumps and elements, altho they tend to disseminate Mao's underrated performance.
    anyway, isn't tappin the judges prohibited?
    Last edited by Bastet; 03-04-2010 at 07:37 PM.

  2. #2
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bastet View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pABFqcfoq28

    found this while utubing few min ago.
    kinda interesting how they mark each jumps and elements, altho they tend to disseminate Mao's underrated performance.
    anyway, isn't tappin the judges prohibited?
    "Underrated"? She placed well considering her LP only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "Mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3Axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3Lutz, a3Salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3Axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (Kim, Rochette, Nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced LP. She and Japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.

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    As a Korean, I think that Japanese media went too far this time. They have a trouble in accepting that Mao is not the best in the world. At least, in this Olympics, she was not the best.

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    I think the fights between uber-Asada and uber-Kim fans are just about the most tedious thing going in online skating commentary.

    They should take a cue from the ladies themselves who have ony ever treated each other with courtesy and respect. And they might take a cue from more sane fans as well (since IINM both skaters are popular in both countries).

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    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    "underrated"? She placed well considering her lp only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3lutz, a3salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (kim, rochette, nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced lp. She and japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.
    ita.

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    Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
    Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.

    I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gourry View Post
    Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
    Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.

    I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them?
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.

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    I would also like to add, is it just me or are they focusing on just one judge? (No bonus points are awarded for which judge it seems to be...) If they're really going for a conspiracy angle, they should have recorded ALL the judges' scoring. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a grossly overscoring or underscoring judge raise flags? Wasn't there a judge who had been kicked out before because of this, IIRC, an Azerbaijan judge? And under the system, don't they randomly throw out scores..?

    I think this is an utter fail at "investigative" journalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.
    I believe they're basically questioning the judge's ability using that monitor in the judge's table. Also, they show exactly which button was pushed in the monitor by which judge.

    IMO, this is serious crime, disregarding the validity of their claim. What they were trying to say doesn't matter. What matters is that they tab the judges in the Olympic game and they could tell which skater gets how many points before it's officially announced.

    It's more than just iSU. It's more so for IOC.
    Last edited by hellcat; 03-01-2010 at 12:16 PM.

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    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.
    I only have access to a slow computer and can't access the clip to translate word for word, but the gist of the clip is that they are questioning the weight of the GoE's in deciding who wins.

    So from memory, I think the clip first introduces the idea that Mao and Yuna had a different strategy for trying to win, that Mao tried to win by breaking an Olympic record by doing 3 triple-axels, whereas Yuna tried to win by perfecting the elements she was good at and getting good GoE's.

    And then the clip goes on to an explanation of what GoE's are, that they range from -3 to +3, and shows the computer system that the judges uses to record their scores. And I think you had some voice over or the journalist saying things like 'Ah, yes, here is the yellow tab. This is the tab for 0 GoEs, and here are the red tabs for negative GoEs'. Stuff like that, I believe, but I'm explaining from memory so I'm sure I'm only getting the gist of it.

    And then, I believe they cut to the competition and show how the computer system was actually utilized by judges, and so they showed e.g., Yuna doing an element and then juxtaposed it with the back of a judge using the end of an eraser to push a tab for GoEs, and I think the journalist is saying things like 'The green tab has been touched', and then show Mao doing her triple-axel with the same back and computer screen, and the journalist is saying 'The red tab has been touched', etc.

    And I also remember Brian Orser being interviewed at a certain point in the program, and the voice over is just translating what he's saying. I think he was talking about the importance of GoEs or the nature of CoP-friendly program or something like that.

    And then I think there was a short clip of a Caucasian-looking man---was he a judge?---and a voice asks something like 'why didn't Mao win', and he responds, 'Her jumps were not good'.

    And then finally, I think Plushenko is interviewed, and the voice over is translating what he says, and I think he basically said that Mao should have been given more positive GoEs for her triple-axels.

    And then I think that was about it. But I'm sure I only got the general sense across and probably got the sequence wrong.
    Last edited by hurrah; 03-01-2010 at 12:26 PM.

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    Custom Title Morning Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    She and Japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.
    Don't worry, they ARE pleased!



    http://vancouver.yahoo.co.jp/photos/...p-spo.view-000

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    The logic behind the secrecy is a two-sided coin. Yes, the public accountability of individual judges evaporated but that applies to those who try to manipulate the system as well. Say, if you bribed a judge but you can't tell whether s/he delivered then it's likely you just wasted money - unless you bought the whole panel. I think it is better to keep the anonymity to a certain degree for that reason. The public can still tell who the judges are anyway. (They are sitting there with the audience)

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis View Post
    Say, if you bribed a judge but you can't tell whether s/he delivered then it's likely you just wasted money - unless you bought the whole panel. I think it is better to keep the anonymity to a certain degree for that reason.
    The anonymity idea was put into the Interim System for the 2002-2003 season to try to appease the International Olympic Committee after the Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal. It was then retained in the CoP. The point was not to prevent bribery but to prevent national federation leaders from pressuring judges from their own country to go along with whatever deal the federation chiefs cooked up (e.g., Didier Gailhaguet pressuring French judge Marie Reine Le Gougne.)

    I do not think this secrecy idea works at all. In the first place, the judges and federation chiefs are on the same team, they are not adversaries. Secondly, it is quite easy for ISU insiders to find out which judge voted which way -- it is just the public that is in the dark.

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    I think what's most ironic about this whole judging business (and slightly ot since it's not about the taping itself) is that a couple of months ago, so many people were insinuating that there would be a Japanese judge or tech caller who was going to unfairly judge any non-Japanese skater (this was after the 4CC when Yuna got a downgrade on her jump). And of course, the Japanese sponsors, who would also influence the outcome. Phil Hersh dedicated an entire article to the conspiracy theory. Instead, what you had was a Korean judge on the judging panel, and a lot of big Korean sponsors for the Olympics.

    I know Yuna won fair and square, with no biased judging or "judges being bribed", however, I just find it interesting that so many people were buying into the conspiracy theories against the Japanese. I know there were a few threads about it several months back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    I know Yuna won fair and square, with no biased judging or "judges being bribed", however, I just find it interesting that so many people were buying into the conspiracy theories against the Japanese. I know there were a few threads about it several months back.
    What is skating without conspiracy?:banging:

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