Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 180

Thread: Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

  1. #1
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NJ/USA
    Posts
    4

    Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxAN5rYRqaU

    found this while utubing few min ago.
    kinda interesting how they mark each jumps and elements, altho they tend to disseminate Mao's underrated performance.
    anyway, isn't tappin the judges prohibited?
    Last edited by Bastet; 03-04-2010 at 07:37 PM.

  2. #2
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Storybrooke, Maine
    Posts
    3,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Bastet View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pABFqcfoq28

    found this while utubing few min ago.
    kinda interesting how they mark each jumps and elements, altho they tend to disseminate Mao's underrated performance.
    anyway, isn't tappin the judges prohibited?
    "Underrated"? She placed well considering her LP only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "Mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3Axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3Lutz, a3Salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3Axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (Kim, Rochette, Nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced LP. She and Japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.

  3. #3
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    29
    As a Korean, I think that Japanese media went too far this time. They have a trouble in accepting that Mao is not the best in the world. At least, in this Olympics, she was not the best.

  4. #4
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,363
    I think the fights between uber-Asada and uber-Kim fans are just about the most tedious thing going in online skating commentary.

    They should take a cue from the ladies themselves who have ony ever treated each other with courtesy and respect. And they might take a cue from more sane fans as well (since IINM both skaters are popular in both countries).

  5. #5
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    "underrated"? She placed well considering her lp only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3lutz, a3salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (kim, rochette, nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced lp. She and japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.
    ita.

  6. #6
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    591
    Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
    Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.

    I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them?

  7. #7
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by gourry View Post
    Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
    Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.

    I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them?
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.

  8. #8
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    253
    I would also like to add, is it just me or are they focusing on just one judge? (No bonus points are awarded for which judge it seems to be...) If they're really going for a conspiracy angle, they should have recorded ALL the judges' scoring. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a grossly overscoring or underscoring judge raise flags? Wasn't there a judge who had been kicked out before because of this, IIRC, an Azerbaijan judge? And under the system, don't they randomly throw out scores..?

    I think this is an utter fail at "investigative" journalism.

  9. #9
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.
    I believe they're basically questioning the judge's ability using that monitor in the judge's table. Also, they show exactly which button was pushed in the monitor by which judge.

    IMO, this is serious crime, disregarding the validity of their claim. What they were trying to say doesn't matter. What matters is that they tab the judges in the Olympic game and they could tell which skater gets how many points before it's officially announced.

    It's more than just iSU. It's more so for IOC.
    Last edited by hellcat; 03-01-2010 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,142
    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

    Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

    I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.
    I only have access to a slow computer and can't access the clip to translate word for word, but the gist of the clip is that they are questioning the weight of the GoE's in deciding who wins.

    So from memory, I think the clip first introduces the idea that Mao and Yuna had a different strategy for trying to win, that Mao tried to win by breaking an Olympic record by doing 3 triple-axels, whereas Yuna tried to win by perfecting the elements she was good at and getting good GoE's.

    And then the clip goes on to an explanation of what GoE's are, that they range from -3 to +3, and shows the computer system that the judges uses to record their scores. And I think you had some voice over or the journalist saying things like 'Ah, yes, here is the yellow tab. This is the tab for 0 GoEs, and here are the red tabs for negative GoEs'. Stuff like that, I believe, but I'm explaining from memory so I'm sure I'm only getting the gist of it.

    And then, I believe they cut to the competition and show how the computer system was actually utilized by judges, and so they showed e.g., Yuna doing an element and then juxtaposed it with the back of a judge using the end of an eraser to push a tab for GoEs, and I think the journalist is saying things like 'The green tab has been touched', and then show Mao doing her triple-axel with the same back and computer screen, and the journalist is saying 'The red tab has been touched', etc.

    And I also remember Brian Orser being interviewed at a certain point in the program, and the voice over is just translating what he's saying. I think he was talking about the importance of GoEs or the nature of CoP-friendly program or something like that.

    And then I think there was a short clip of a Caucasian-looking man---was he a judge?---and a voice asks something like 'why didn't Mao win', and he responds, 'Her jumps were not good'.

    And then finally, I think Plushenko is interviewed, and the voice over is translating what he says, and I think he basically said that Mao should have been given more positive GoEs for her triple-axels.

    And then I think that was about it. But I'm sure I only got the general sense across and probably got the sequence wrong.
    Last edited by hurrah; 03-01-2010 at 12:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I only have access to a slow computer and can't access the clip to translate word for word, but the gist of the clip is that they are questioning the weight of the GoE's in deciding who wins.

    So from memory, I think the clip first introduces the idea that Mao and Yuna had a different strategy for trying to win, that Mao tried to win by breaking an Olympic record by doing 3 triple-axels, whereas Yuna tried to win by perfecting the elements she was good at and getting good GoE's.

    And then the clip goes on to an explanation of what GoE's are, that they range from -3 to +3, and shows the computer system that the judges uses to record their scores. And I think you had some voice over or the journalist saying things like 'Ah, yes, here is the yellow tab. This is the tab for 0 GoEs, and here are the red tabs for negative GoEs'. Stuff like that, I believe, but I'm explaining from memory so I'm sure I'm only getting the gist of it.

    And then, I believe they cut to the competition and show how the computer system was actually utilized by judges, and so they showed e.g., Yuna doing an element and then juxtaposed it with the back of a judge using the end of an eraser to push a tab for GoEs, and I think the journalist is saying things like 'The green tab has been touched', and then show Mao doing her triple-axel with the same back and computer screen, and the journalist is saying 'The red tab has been touched', etc.

    And I also remember Brian Orser being interviewed at a certain point in the program, and the voice over is just translating what he's saying. I think he was talking about the importance of GoEs or the nature of CoP-friendly program or something like that.

    And then I think there was a short clip of a Caucasian-looking man---was he a judge?---and a voice asks something like 'why didn't Mao win', and he responds, 'Her jumps were not good'.

    And then finally, I think Plushenko is interviewed, and the voice over is translating what he says, and I think he basically said that Mao should have been given more positive GoEs for her triple-axels.

    And then I think that was about it. But I'm sure I only got the general sense across and probably got the sequence wrong.
    Actually you got more or less everything from the clip right. Am impressed. :-) (I listened to the Japanese & read the Korean subtitle ) The thing that Orser seemed to emphased was that you must have a high GOE on each of your element in order to win, so doing something VERY WELL is critical.

    I think they're trying to understand / explain why Mao and Yuna had a such big difference in points. But then they don't consider the fact that Mao did only 4 triple jumps, while Yuna did six, and that Mao had a non-jump mistake (edge getting caught), and so on. I don't think that 2 triple axels -- as beautiful as they were -- can make up for the points Yuna got for doing 2 3Lz or 2 3T, which Mao did not attempt and/or popped (I'm assuming that their 3F were a wash, and same for Mao's 3Lo & Yuna's 3S).

    Regardless, I think taping judges like that is going too far.

  12. #12
    On the Ice sarukou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    33
    Why can't the judges in figure skating be open and identified? AFAIK, it's the only sport that has anonymous judging panels. Every other judged sport shows what each judge's nationality is, and shows each mark each judge gave. Why can't figure skating? By having anonymous judging, figure skating loses even more credibility as a sport.

    Moreover, how is what this T.V. station did in the wrong? They filmed the judge's marks. This is illegal how? If the judges are being fair, they should have nothing to worry about anyways.

  13. #13
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by sarukou View Post
    Why can't the judges in figure skating be open and identified? AFAIK, it's the only sport that has anonymous judging panels. Every other judged sport shows what each judge's nationality is, and shows each mark each judge gave. Why can't figure skating? By having anonymous judging, figure skating loses even more credibility as a sport.

    Moreover, how is what this T.V. station did in the wrong? They filmed the judge's marks. This is illegal how? If the judges are being fair, they should have nothing to worry about anyways.
    The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. I've never seen anything like this - people peering behind the judge's backs while they're doing their job. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by bmelanie View Post
    The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. I've never seen anything like this - people peering behind the judge's backs while they're doing their job. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.
    ITA.

    sarukou

    I don't agree with anonymous judging myself, but it's wrong for TV stations to film judges SECRETLY. After all, why do it secretly if they think they aren't doing anything wrong in the first place? How can there by any moral superiority? They SPIED on the judges. Its' never been done before. Not that I know of, not during 6.0, and not until now under COP.

    And the only reason why the TV station in Japan decided to air it is because Mao didn't get OGM. If she had, they wouldn't have aired it. It was out of pure spite, nothing more, esp. with their inclusion of Plushenko who commented that 3A should automatically get more GOE just because it was landed.
    Last edited by Nadia01; 03-01-2010 at 01:57 PM.

  15. #15
    On the Ice sarukou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    After all, why do it secretly if they think they aren't doing anything wrong in the first place?
    This is exactly it. Why do you think there is now anonymous - secret - judging?

    And, there has been a case under the 6.0 of judges being spied on. Remember 'Footsiegate' at the 1999 World Pairs event? Judges were filmed giving foot-tapping signals to each other.

    My guess is that when they were caught, they didn't like it much. Anonymous judging allows for anonymous cheating, so to speak. Unless they are caught on film.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmelanie View Post
    The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.
    Oh, no! The judges would have to worry about being fair! What a terrible and unnecessary pressure to put them under...

Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •