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Thread: Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Wow, putting the whole Yu-na vs. Mao debate aside, this is a clear violation of journalistic endeavors. What in the world are these people trying to get at by taping the judges? Did they actually think they would get applauded for going against the rules in order to hold up their national favorite? They give a poor explanation of the GOE system, put every element out of context, and make it seem as though Mao should've won, but didn't just because of GOE, when it fact she made mistakes. I can't read the subtitles or comprehend the Japanese, but the gist of every word is clear, as are the underlying messages. Mao wasn't satisfied with her performance for a reason. Why don't they understand that? And why are they filming one judge only? Clearly, an implication is being made. Are people actually believing this rubbish?
    For me, the worst part would be that the more casual fans of the sport, who are not fully conversant on the IJS, might be mislead about the scoring. I think it was mentioned on another forum that there are Japanese journalists who offered more balanced views, not only explaining GOEs properly (and why Yu-Na gets so many high GOEs) but also why Mao's mistakes with the flip and popped jump cost her. Can someone more familiar with Japanese print/broadcast media enlighten us to these more balanced opinions? I would really rather pretend that this (the video-taping) is more like the actions of the few, more like an isolated incident.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I think maybe you missed another post I've made in which I clarified that it was another interview? I've seen like tons of Mao interviews post-LP.
    Nope. I noticed that we were talking the same interview done right after her LP performance and surprised again how differently we got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunny0760 View Post
    What Plush said was exactly what you said, "Mao sould get more GOE just because she landed them."
    He said Mao should get more GOE because she landed them beautifully not just because she landed them. Of course I know this is subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    By showing the Korean judge in particular, they seem to be trying to stir up anti-Korean sentiment as well.
    I find this as a rubbish journalism that deserve strong condemnation.
    I've watched this video only one time, and didn't noticed there was a Korean judge.. Where is he/she? The judge whose monitor was filmed was Korean judge?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I really find it incredible that so many peolpe call 3Lz / 3T & 2A/3T "common".
    I really admire Yuna's combos. I only said 'more common' (than the triple-axel), not 'common'.

    Those combos are not common. They are only more common than the triple-axel.

    And I have eyes and I know the great quality with which she executes them.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I think it was mentioned on another forum that there are Japanese journalists who offered more balanced views, not only explaining GOEs properly (and why Yu-Na gets so many high GOEs) but also why Mao's mistakes with the flip and popped jump cost her.
    Most Japanese media offered the views exactly like you mentioned. Yuna skated beautifully and perfectly, deserved high GOEs, and Mao's mistakes with the flip and popped jump cost her although she made a history by landing 2 3As. Some media says even if Mao skated perfectly, it might be difficult to beat Yuna.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    If Mao had skated SOTL and squeaky clean and still lost to clean Yuna, I'd say there's a valid reason for unhappiness and debate on the JP side. As it stands, programs like this come across as whining. They should be happy that Mao's 4 triples beat Joannie's 7 triples for OSM.
    I agree. If both ladies had skated clean, we'd have a proper argument. Did the video leave out the underrotated jump and the popped jump? Dubious journalism aside, it would have been more fair if they focused on all the judges.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I really admire Yuna's combos. I only said 'more common' (than the triple-axel), not 'common'.

    Those combos are not common. They are only more common than the triple-axel.

    And I have eyes and I know the great quality with which she executes them.
    I love watching Yuna's 3/3 myself too, but I'm still not sure why it's more common than 3A/2T when we're talking about the rarity of jump combinations and GOE given at the Oly, when no lady skater at the competition landed 3Lz / 3T (SP or LP). They didn't even attempt it at the Oly. (Just like nobody else landed 3A/2T or even tried.)

    I'm not sure being the 1st land 3A gives Mao any special GOE consideration or if it's even worthy of a special GOE consideration. As it is, Mao already made history by being the 1st woman to do three at the Oly, and I'm sure she knew she couldn't expect anything special on the GOE side just because she was the first or the only one.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    Did the video leave out the underrotated jump and the popped jump? Dubious journalism aside, it would have been more fair if they focused on all the judges.
    I think they included her underrotated 3f-2l-2l.
    They left it vague as to which judges' panel(s) they were shooting, which was probably the only way to go.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
    He said Mao should get more GOE because she landed them beautifully not just because she landed them. Of course I know this is subjective.
    I think that he did not specifically say about the quality of the jumps and emphasized 'cleanly landed' and 'the first time' and 'two times'.
    Whatever he says, do YOU think that Mao's 3As were beautiful so they had to be given more GOE? That would be your opinion and more than a few people might agree even if mine is different.

    And I don't care what the majority of Japanese media is saying about Yuna or her victory.
    I am sure there are more sane and sensible people than stupid and insane ones so I was particularly disappointed by that particular program. I hope there will be never ones like that.
    Last edited by sunny0760; 03-02-2010 at 06:20 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I love watching Yuna's 3/3 myself too, but I'm still not sure why it's more common than 3A/2T when we're talking about the rarity of jump combinations and GOE given at the Oly, when no lady skater at the competition landed 3Lz / 3T (SP or LP). They didn't even attempt it at the Oly. (Just like nobody else landed 3A/2T or even tried.)

    I'm not sure being the 1st land 3A gives Mao any special GOE consideration or if it's even worthy of a special GOE consideration. As it is, Mao already made history by being the 1st woman to do three at the Oly, and I'm sure she knew she couldn't expect anything special on the GOE side just because she was the first or the only one.
    I don't want to go into a lengthy discussion and I don't have the knowledge to carry out such a discussion, but I remember other threads where people talked about who had done 3Lz/3T. My memory's vague but I think Shizuka's name was mentioned? And some others but I forgot. I think Kimmie Meissner landed it but not at the Olympics.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    If Mao had skated SOTL and squeaky clean and still lost to clean Yuna, I'd say there's a valid reason for unhappiness and debate on the JP side. As it stands, programs like this come across as whining. They should be happy that Mao's 4 triples beat Joannie's 7 triples for OSM.
    Apart from this video, there's a valid reason for debate on the JP side, I think. The explanation why clean Mao's SP are almost 5 point below clean Yuna's SP was needed especially for the casual viewers.Also, the 23 point between Mao's LP and Yuna's LP should be explained( not negatively).

    One more thing, I always feel strange someone said Mao's program only had 4 triples. Yes, actually it was, but 2 of 4 were 3As and 3A's base value is worth 2 triples( I mean 2 3T, or 3S+3T). So under the COP, it's possible 4 triples program can beat 7 triples program.

  11. #56
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    I do think that this program implied that Mao should have gotten more GoEs on her triple-axels, a remarkable feat for a woman, to Yuna's high quality but more common jumps and jump combinations.
    First, let me make myself clear.
    Asada did not deserve higher GOEs.
    If anything, she was gifted by not getting 2 of her 3 triple axels downgraded.
    If there had been a robbery, it was Joannie who lost her silver.

    This piece is only implying that the 23 point difference between the two was too much. And this is an understanding that is widespread amongst Japanese public.
    The program seems to be misleading Japanese public by saying that Asada should have scored higher, but omitting higher than what.
    A casual fan easily misinterpret this as Asada should have scored higher than Kim, not her actual scores.
    If they wanted to review scores, they should have looked at protocols rather than questioning sport's integrity by covertly filming judging process.

    As it was, the only thing that they could with some legitimacy argue was that the gap in points was too big, and in this light, the Korean judge's image was probably only used because they needed an image of a hand pushing the computer screen to mark the GOEs.
    You are suggesting that producers of the clip ended up choosing the Korean judge by chance.
    It is a possibility, but only 1/9 of happenning. Haha

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
    One more thing, I always feel strange someone said Mao's program only had 4 triples. Yes, actually it was, but 2 of 4 were 3As and 3A's base value is worth 2 triples( I mean 2 3T, or 3S+3T). So under the COP, it's possible 4 triples program can beat 7 triples program.
    Yes, if you're talking about low-pt earning triples, sure.

    But the way some people go on, it's as though one 3A should be worth as much as or more than 3Lz/3T. That's what I object to.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    You are suggesting that producers of the clip ended up choosing the Korean judge by chance.
    It is a possibility, but only 1/9 of happenning. Haha
    I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that the television crew was taking various shots and of course taking shots of the Korean judge with the possibility in mind of Yuna with two mistakes winning against perfect Mao. If this had happened, then those shots would have been edited entirely differently. Maybe they would have shown the images with less blurring, or without covering up the back with other extraneous images so that the viewer could easily tell that the back was an Asian woman.

    But you see, this scandal was avoided because Yuna is a strong competitor and she skated perfectly, and so the shots of the back was edited to become an unidentifiable blur to the casual viewer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that the television crew was taking various shots and of course taking shots of the Korean judge with the possibility in mind of Yuna with two mistakes winning against perfect Mao. If this had happened, then those shots would have been edited entirely differently. Maybe they would have shown the images with less blurring, or without covering up the back with other extraneous images so that the viewer could easily tell that the back was an Asian woman.

    But you see, this scandal was avoided because Yuna is a strong competitor and she skated perfectly, and so the shots of the back was edited to become an unidentifiable blur to the casual viewer.
    You sound like saying "NO HARM, NO FOUL".
    I don't agree.
    A crime should get punishment regardless to whether there were consequences or not.
    Would you be OK if someone took photo up your skirt but failed to get pictures of your underwear? LOL

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    You sound like saying "NO HARM, NO FOUL".
    I don't agree.
    A crime should get punishment regardless to whether there were consequences or not.
    Would you be OK if someone took photo up your skirt but failed to get pictures of your underwear? LOL

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