Isn't taping the judges prohibited? | Golden Skate

Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pABFqcfoq28

found this while utubing few min ago.
kinda interesting how they mark each jumps and elements, altho they tend to disseminate Mao's underrated performance.
anyway, isn't tappin the judges prohibited?

"Underrated"? She placed well considering her LP only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "Mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3Axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3Lutz, a3Salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3Axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (Kim, Rochette, Nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced LP. She and Japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.
 

ilunga1965

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
As a Korean, I think that Japanese media went too far this time. They have a trouble in accepting that Mao is not the best in the world. At least, in this Olympics, she was not the best.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I think the fights between uber-Asada and uber-Kim fans are just about the most tedious thing going in online skating commentary.

They should take a cue from the ladies themselves who have ony ever treated each other with courtesy and respect. And they might take a cue from more sane fans as well (since IINM both skaters are popular in both countries).
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
"underrated"? She placed well considering her lp only had 4 triples completed. I don't understand the controversial "mao deserved more" tone that seems to permeate this video at all. So much attention is being put on her completing two 3axel jumps, and yes, while that is an amazing feat on her part, you can't overlook the elements that her program was missing, namely a 3lutz, a3salchow, and a 3toe. She only completed two 3axels, one 3flip, and one 3loop, that's 4 triples, while the other top women (kim, rochette, nagasu) completed 6 or 7 triples. What kind of sport is this when so many are only focused on one jump element? She didn't have a technically well-balanced lp. She and japan should be very pleased with her silver medal.

ita.
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.:disapp:

I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them? :unsure:
 

Ren

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Japanese media not getting Yuna and Mao's scores is nothing new. They really should know by now both difficulty and quality matters. Besides, wasn't it Mao herself that said she removed some choreos and transitions so that she could land 3As? Then she knew she's not gonna get good GOEs and/or PCS and still took that path. She got what she deserved.
Plushenko... Could he be anymore sour??? It's really disappointing.:disapp:

I'm really curious though. Can they do that? I mean recording judges and tapping them? :unsure:

I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.
 

Ren

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I would also like to add, is it just me or are they focusing on just one judge? (No bonus points are awarded for which judge it seems to be...) If they're really going for a conspiracy angle, they should have recorded ALL the judges' scoring. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a grossly overscoring or underscoring judge raise flags? Wasn't there a judge who had been kicked out before because of this, IIRC, an Azerbaijan judge? And under the system, don't they randomly throw out scores..?

I think this is an utter fail at "investigative" journalism.
 

hellcat

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.

I believe they're basically questioning the judge's ability using that monitor in the judge's table. Also, they show exactly which button was pushed in the monitor by which judge.

IMO, this is serious crime, disregarding the validity of their claim. What they were trying to say doesn't matter. What matters is that they tab the judges in the Olympic game and they could tell which skater gets how many points before it's officially announced.

It's more than just iSU. It's more so for IOC.
 
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hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I foresee this being picked up by more and more fans on each side (while the more neutral fans throw their hands up in disgust/exasperation), the media will pick it up (and given that more international media are more aware of Yu-na now, I don't think it's a good thing), the ISU will be very annoyed at getting dragged into it. From how far away do you think the vid was recorded? If this is something against the rules, will it be possible that the Japanese Federation will get reprimanded and told to brief their countrymen accordingly? Like say, for example, journalist ethics...

Can someone please translate what they are saying? Maybe we are not getting the correct context of this vid; I sincerely hope so. What exactly are they hoping to accomplish? If Mao had a clean skate, we would be having a legitimate argument. Even to the naked eye she made two mistakes--one was the flip, the other was when she popped a jump.

I feel for Mao. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes in her program, but she knows it was her mistakes and doesn't blame anybody else.

I only have access to a slow computer and can't access the clip to translate word for word, but the gist of the clip is that they are questioning the weight of the GoE's in deciding who wins.

So from memory, I think the clip first introduces the idea that Mao and Yuna had a different strategy for trying to win, that Mao tried to win by breaking an Olympic record by doing 3 triple-axels, whereas Yuna tried to win by perfecting the elements she was good at and getting good GoE's.

And then the clip goes on to an explanation of what GoE's are, that they range from -3 to +3, and shows the computer system that the judges uses to record their scores. And I think you had some voice over or the journalist saying things like 'Ah, yes, here is the yellow tab. This is the tab for 0 GoEs, and here are the red tabs for negative GoEs'. Stuff like that, I believe, but I'm explaining from memory so I'm sure I'm only getting the gist of it.

And then, I believe they cut to the competition and show how the computer system was actually utilized by judges, and so they showed e.g., Yuna doing an element and then juxtaposed it with the back of a judge using the end of an eraser to push a tab for GoEs, and I think the journalist is saying things like 'The green tab has been touched', and then show Mao doing her triple-axel with the same back and computer screen, and the journalist is saying 'The red tab has been touched', etc.

And I also remember Brian Orser being interviewed at a certain point in the program, and the voice over is just translating what he's saying. I think he was talking about the importance of GoEs or the nature of CoP-friendly program or something like that.

And then I think there was a short clip of a Caucasian-looking man---was he a judge?---and a voice asks something like 'why didn't Mao win', and he responds, 'Her jumps were not good'.

And then finally, I think Plushenko is interviewed, and the voice over is translating what he says, and I think he basically said that Mao should have been given more positive GoEs for her triple-axels.

And then I think that was about it. But I'm sure I only got the general sense across and probably got the sequence wrong.
 
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Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
I only have access to a slow computer and can't access the clip to translate word for word, but the gist of the clip is that they are questioning the weight of the GoE's in deciding who wins.

So from memory, I think the clip first introduces the idea that Mao and Yuna had a different strategy for trying to win, that Mao tried to win by breaking an Olympic record by doing 3 triple-axels, whereas Yuna tried to win by perfecting the elements she was good at and getting good GoE's.

And then the clip goes on to an explanation of what GoE's are, that they range from -3 to +3, and shows the computer system that the judges uses to record their scores. And I think you had some voice over or the journalist saying things like 'Ah, yes, here is the yellow tab. This is the tab for 0 GoEs, and here are the red tabs for negative GoEs'. Stuff like that, I believe, but I'm explaining from memory so I'm sure I'm only getting the gist of it.

And then, I believe they cut to the competition and show how the computer system was actually utilized by judges, and so they showed e.g., Yuna doing an element and then juxtaposed it with the back of a judge using the end of an eraser to push a tab for GoEs, and I think the journalist is saying things like 'The green tab has been touched', and then show Mao doing her triple-axel with the same back and computer screen, and the journalist is saying 'The red tab has been touched', etc.

And I also remember Brian Orser being interviewed at a certain point in the program, and the voice over is just translating what he's saying. I think he was talking about the importance of GoEs or the nature of CoP-friendly program or something like that.

And then I think there was a short clip of a Caucasian-looking man---was he a judge?---and a voice asks something like 'why didn't Mao win', and he responds, 'Her jumps were not good'.

And then finally, I think Plushenko is interviewed, and the voice over is translating what he says, and I think he basically said that Mao should have been given more positive GoEs for her triple-axels.

And then I think that was about it. But I'm sure I only got the general sense across and probably got the sequence wrong.

Actually you got more or less everything from the clip right. Am impressed. :) (I listened to the Japanese & read the Korean subtitle ) The thing that Orser seemed to emphased was that you must have a high GOE on each of your element in order to win, so doing something VERY WELL is critical.

I think they're trying to understand / explain why Mao and Yuna had a such big difference in points. But then they don't consider the fact that Mao did only 4 triple jumps, while Yuna did six, and that Mao had a non-jump mistake (edge getting caught), and so on. I don't think that 2 triple axels -- as beautiful as they were -- can make up for the points Yuna got for doing 2 3Lz or 2 3T, which Mao did not attempt and/or popped (I'm assuming that their 3F were a wash, and same for Mao's 3Lo & Yuna's 3S).

Regardless, I think taping judges like that is going too far.
 

sarukou

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Why can't the judges in figure skating be open and identified? AFAIK, it's the only sport that has anonymous judging panels. Every other judged sport shows what each judge's nationality is, and shows each mark each judge gave. Why can't figure skating? By having anonymous judging, figure skating loses even more credibility as a sport.

Moreover, how is what this T.V. station did in the wrong? They filmed the judge's marks. This is illegal how? If the judges are being fair, they should have nothing to worry about anyways.
 

bmelanie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Why can't the judges in figure skating be open and identified? AFAIK, it's the only sport that has anonymous judging panels. Every other judged sport shows what each judge's nationality is, and shows each mark each judge gave. Why can't figure skating? By having anonymous judging, figure skating loses even more credibility as a sport.

Moreover, how is what this T.V. station did in the wrong? They filmed the judge's marks. This is illegal how? If the judges are being fair, they should have nothing to worry about anyways.

The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. I've never seen anything like this - people peering behind the judge's backs while they're doing their job. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. I've never seen anything like this - people peering behind the judge's backs while they're doing their job. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.

ITA.

sarukou

I don't agree with anonymous judging myself, but it's wrong for TV stations to film judges SECRETLY. After all, why do it secretly if they think they aren't doing anything wrong in the first place? How can there by any moral superiority? They SPIED on the judges. Its' never been done before. Not that I know of, not during 6.0, and not until now under COP.

And the only reason why the TV station in Japan decided to air it is because Mao didn't get OGM. If she had, they wouldn't have aired it. It was out of pure spite, nothing more, esp. with their inclusion of Plushenko who commented that 3A should automatically get more GOE just because it was landed.
 
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sarukou

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
After all, why do it secretly if they think they aren't doing anything wrong in the first place?

This is exactly it. Why do you think there is now anonymous - secret - judging?

And, there has been a case under the 6.0 of judges being spied on. Remember 'Footsiegate' at the 1999 World Pairs event? Judges were filmed giving foot-tapping signals to each other.

My guess is that when they were caught, they didn't like it much. Anonymous judging allows for anonymous cheating, so to speak. Unless they are caught on film.

The judges should also not have to worry about TV stations breathing down their backs. It's just unprofessional and puts unnecessary pressure on the judges, who should be concentrating on the skaters than the camera crew that's filming their every move.

Oh, no! The judges would have to worry about being fair! What a terrible and unnecessary pressure to put them under...
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
This is exactly it. Why do you think there is now anonymous - secret - judging?

And, there has been a case under the 6.0 of judges being spied on. Remember 'Footsiegate' at the 1999 World Pairs event? Judges were filmed giving foot-tapping signals to each other.

My guess is that when they were caught, they didn't like it much. Anonymous judging allows for anonymous cheating, so to speak. Unless they are caught on film.



Oh, no! The judges would have to worry about being fair! What a terrible and unnecessary pressure to put them under...

I think it's a matter of taking the high ground. I don't think there is anyone on this board who is FOR anonymous judging. But the fact is that it's highly questionable that this television station is trying to circumspect basic journalism ethics to get their story.

And the worst part is that the filming didn't really add much to the story.
 

sunrock

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
And the worst part is that the filming didn't really add much to the story.
But if you are a casual viewer in Japan and watch this you probably now think the South Korean judge was biased and purposely scoring Mao less. :disapp:
 

Puppylove

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
I think it's a matter of taking the high ground. I don't think there is anyone on this board who is FOR anonymous judging. But the fact is that it's highly questionable that this television station is trying to circumspect basic journalism ethics to get their story.

And the worst part is that the filming didn't really add much to the story.


It's a bit scary how often I agree with you, Mrs. P!

I was scratching my head when I read this thread, wondering what the point of this exercise was anyway, considering the breakdown of the scores comes out almost immediately and many FS fans in a country where the sport is popular know how the GOE system works. If it was intended to educate the wider audience, they could have just... explained in words? Although it would be terribly unfair, some people from outside Japan might associate this negatively with the Japanese skaters.
 

newvie

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Is it now Korea & USA vs Japan & Russia?

Personally, I found this program informative. I always wondered how the scores were registered that I tried to get a seat right behind the judges at the TEB. The ticketing didn't work as I wanted and now my curiosity is somewhat resolved.

However, the ISU should not be happy about this. It is certainly against their anonymous judging policy. Also, their intention doesn't seem to be very pure as they were filming only one judge. They really didn't trust this judge, lol :laugh:
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I found it weird that the man ( I think a judge) actually answered questions for the reporters of why he scored Mao that way. I thought judges wouldn't answer questions about individual scores of skaters to the media. Just seems strange.
 
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