Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

[Bennett]

Wow~ This is a serious issue. So Japanese media actually spied judges with hidden cam while they were scoring? Well, I won't be surprised if JSF receives a major penalty because of this. If I were the judge, I would be really pissed.

I don't think that the JSF is responsible for receiving penalty for what a TV program did. They are completely separate entities that should be distinguished. But the TV program should be responsible for whatever criticism and penalty they deserve if they didn't get permission in advance from the ISU.

[Morning Glory]

I don't live in Japan or Korea, so I haven't watched the television programs.

I do want to observe what I'm seeing here is the difference in perception. There is a group of people (including our media here in the U.S. and Canada) that seem to believe that what is driving this is this bitterness between Korea and Japan because of the past and so forth. There's another group that believes that such belief is exaggerated and that a Korean skater beating a Japanese skater is a victory, it's only the "icing on the cake" not the "cake" itself.

I went to Korea for a month-long professionals exchange in 2008 and my impression of the whole Japan and Korea relationship (based on talking to my host family) is while they're far from being best friends, it wouldn't be good to call them bitter enemies either. There have been efforts to reconcile and clearly the two countries support the other's economy in some way — I was in Seoul the first week of May, which is the Golden Week holiday for Japan. I had a really hard time getting a hotel room because of the Japanese tourists had booked most of the rooms well in advance.

And in K-Pop you got artists like BOA who actually do better in Japan than in Korea. And also groups like Kara, T-ara and SNSD who also play concerts in Japan with great success.

I don't know, I'm just processing my thoughts and just wanted to share and see what some of you guys thought.

Thank you for posting this! Don't forget TVXQ ( is this right? I mean Touhoushinki) and BIGBANG

[Morning Glory]

Puppylove, thank you for your whole post

In men's 10000m speed skating, everyone KNEW the gold would go to Sven Kramer from Holland. Speed skating is HUGE in Holland, beyond most people's imagination. Kramer is unbelievably popular in his country. I mean, massive. He was skating last. With six pairs to go, this Korean skater, who had won silver in 5000m, is having a skate of his life. He actually overtakes the other skater's lap (unheard of at this level and quite embarrassing for the guy who also happens to be Dutch). Whenever this Korean boy skates past the Dutch crowd, do you know what they are doing? They are cheering him on, screaming their lungs out, because this guy is about to break the Olympic record, which he does. Then Kramer skates, makes the most ridiculous school-boy error (coach's fault!) and gets disqualified. He is devastated, the Korean guy gets the gold rather than silver (said afterwards he's happy about the gold but the victory feels incomplete because he won it through a stronger skater's mistake) and the Dutch crowd are still contratulating the medalists during the medal ceremony. They love the sport first and then their athletes who are good at it.

I believe the same cases have already happened in FS. Yuna got a lot of applause in the competition held in Japan(2007 Worlds and GPF 2009), also Mao got a lot of applause in the competition held in Korea ( 2 4CCs).

[Bennett]

Yes, I do live in Japan, and the slant has annoyed me. The media coverage has been annoying me for a while -- and it's not always about Yuna v. Mao thing either. It's because of their heavy emphasis on Mao doing 3As to the point that I wonder if she really really wants that jump or if she believes she has to do that jump b/c that's what everyone expects of her, and she looked just miserable / depressed in some of the interviews, and I felt so sad watching Mao implode in Russia then having to face the media afterward. (And let's not forget the media's shabby treatment of Miki, etc.)

I don't know if it's the rivalry (JP hates losing to KR, and vice versa, and I think there are some JP people who really think that KR are subhuman or something) or if it's something else. Maybe they're mad that Yuna beat Mao by 23 points, but I'm pretty sure that if Mao had skated CLEAN LP, she would've easily scored over 140 b/c her TES would've gone up, and her PCS accordingly would've been much higher. Perhaps the media didn't want to upset Mao by focusing on the 2 mistakes that cost her so much, but they had to have known -- by looking at the protocols -- that the judges would've rewarded Mao handsomely for a clean LP. So I really cannot decide if they were just honestly that clueless or being willfully vindictive and evil.

Which btw is one of the reasons why I've not watched any news for the last 2 days because I couldnt' stand it. (not to mention my casual FS viewer friends demanding to know why Mao was scored so low and Yuna so high...!)

I"m glad Kozuka's father was fair (I didn't see that interview; I don't watch ZERO). I think that most experts understand the COP and how programs are being judged, and they tend to be much fairer and objective. I've never meant to imply that all Japanese peolpe are rude or mao-bots. If I've done that, I apologize.

I'm glad people are now moving onto "let's be happy for Mao" stage.

I didn't get an impression that the TV programs that you described conveyed evil or vindictive messages on her, even though these programs do seem to have a poor understanding of FS and have their favorite in their mind.

Besides, FS coverage in articles often come from sports papers that seem to be full of sensationalism just about everything. I only read some of them on the FS section of Yahoo Japan Sports and wouldn't take them too seriously. Yet, I've still seen quite a few Japanese articles that specifically focus on Yuna's victory though.

The ones that I see hatred most are on the Internet. Anyone who goes to Youtube for FS videos see those users who are active spreading hatred. But I wonder how many real friends these people have in their lives.

[qoo]

I am quite surprise that they choose two similar types of music as Sp and Lp this year. I don't know, it seems that Mao was only considerd about the 3A the past season and didn't think other things that much.

Yes.. that annoyed **** out of me! She should have gone with the programs that show her strength.. but alas... well hope next year she will pick up something not so heavy. Team Yuna's strategy really worked and I'm actually happy for her cuz I can imagine how much pressure she had been under.

[qoo]

No, I think all the nastiness is actually because of Yuna's nationality. It obviously has a lot to do with the fact that she's Korean, as I've heard there are a lot of racist sentiments against Koreans in Japan. Like I said before, Evan is probably the most bashed skater on skating forums, yet I find it strange you don't hear one peep from Japanese skating fans about Evan when you see him place above Takahashi. However, the vitriol against Yuna is astounding. Frankly, it's embarrassing.Most of the nastiness against Yuna come from Mao or Japanese fans. Most non-Japanese skating fans who don't necessarily like Yuna are largely ambivalent about her and you don't them going out of their way to nasty to her. Whereas, when you see this kind of blind and erratic hatred against Yuna, you always find one assumption to be true: they are Mao fans.

In Japan, people way focus on ladie's figure skating than men's.. and that's evident from the TV coverage. what's more compared to Evan and Plushenko, Daisuke's jumping quality was not as good... but he got the best PCS among all the men competed. So most of people are happy for his bronze. (adding the fact that he got seriously injured)

I know there are previous Yuna fan among Japanese.. but that seemed to change after her comment on Japanese-attacking- her-during-a-practice session incident. But Yuna performed 2 excellent programs at the Olympics and that was really great achievement, and those performance surely help to make Japanese fans along with others.

[Nadia01]

Yes.. that annoyed **** out of me! She should have gone with the programs that show her strength.. but alas... well hope next year she will pick up something not so heavy. Team Yuna's strategy really worked and I'm actually happy for her cuz I can imagine how much pressure she had been under.

Mao said she's not going to choose such heavy music for next season, which is a huge relief. I'd love to see something delightful from her. Her earlier programs were just charming and fantastic, and I don't see why she can't go back to that.

[Bennett]

In Japan, people way focus on ladie's figure skating than men's.. and that's evident from the TV coverage. what's more compared to Evan and Plushenko, Daisuke's jumping quality was not as good... but he got the best PCS among all the men competed. So most of people are happy for his bronze. (adding the fact that he got seriously injured)

I don't think that Evan is well-known among Japanese casual viewers. Plush: he's relatively a lot more famous. But ppl would have been rather surprised if Dai had beaten Plush. Dai's been totally absent last season and his showing this season has not been good.

[sunny0760]

I don't think that Evan is well-known among Japanese casual viewers. Plush: he's relatively a lot more famous. But ppl would have been rather surprised if Dai had beaten Plush. Dai's been totally absent last season and his showing this season has not been good.

Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

1. Before the olympics, how was the expectation of the Japanese general public about the possibility of Japanese men and ladies for winning at oly? For example, Takahashi 20%, Mao 20%? And how was figure fans' expectation about that?

(If you ask me about the same question in the Korean situation, I think most people in Korea were not very interested in Men's but generally knew about Plush, and they expected the possibility of Yuna winning was about 90%.)

2. Who is the most popular male skater in Japan? My impression is Joubert and Weir are very popular but their popularity is smaller than that of Japanese skaters?

[miki88]

Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

1. Before the olympics, how was the expectation of the Japanese general public about the possibility of Japanese men and ladies for winning at oly? For example, Takahashi 20%, Mao 20%? And how was figure fans' expectation about that?
Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

(If you ask me about the same question in the Korean situation, I think most people in Korea were not very interested in Men's but generally knew about Plush, and they expected the possibility of Yuna winning was about 90%.)

2. Who is the most popular male skater in Japan? My impression is Joubert and Weir are very popular but their popularity is smaller than that of Japanese skaters?

I think the most popular male skater is Dai, because he's the most experienced in the team now. And yes Mao is very big in Japan. Her popularity rivals idols and singers in Japan. I think it's not only due to her success in competitions but also because Mao has always been media friendly.

[qoo]

Mao said she's not going to choose such heavy music for next season, which is a huge relief. I'd love to see something delightful from her. Her earlier programs were just charming and fantastic, and I don't see why she can't go back to that.

Yes.. hopefully she keeps her words on that! My favorite SP of her is Tarasova's "Ladies in Lavender"... although I like most of Lori's programs.

[Morning Glory]

1. Before the olympics, how was the expectation of the Japanese general public about the possibility of Japanese men and ladies for winning at oly? For example, Takahashi 20%, Mao 20%? And how was figure fans' expectation about that?

2. Who is the most popular male skater in Japan? My impression is Joubert and Weir are very popular but their popularity is smaller than that of Japanese skaters?

1. It's difficult for me to answer this question because everyone has their own thought. Actually many people( both general people and figure skating fans) HOPED Mao to win, but I don't know how many people believed Mao's win seriously.Even casual fans know Mao struggled this season. IMO, most figure skating fans hoped Mao would skate cleanly and be satisfied with her own performances.

As for Men's, they are not popular compared with the Ladies'. Most expectations went to Daisuke. But judging from his performances before the Olys (GPs and GPF), I doubt how many people (both general people and figure skating fans) thought he could medal. Less than 20%?, sorry I can not specify it.

2. Among the Japanese male skaters, it's Daisuke. Johnny and Stéphane have really really ardent fans here in Japan. Also Brian and Jeff have. In the point of enthusiasm, Johnny may beat Daisuke.

These are MY insight. I'm a Japanese, but not a Japanese expert and don't know the everyone's opinion, so there will be some people disagree with me.

[qoo]

I don't think that Evan is well-known among Japanese casual viewers. Plush: he's relatively a lot more famous. But ppl would have been rather surprised if Dai had beaten Plush. Dai's been totally absent last season and his showing this season has not been good.

Yes.. definitely Plushenko's well known here... and most of us didn't think that Daisuke could beat him from the beginning.

[qoo]

2. Among the Japanese male skaters, it's Daisuke. Johnny and Stéphane have really really ardent fans here in Japan. Also Brian and Jeff have. In the point of enthusiasm, Johnny may beat Daisuke.

These are MY insight. I'm a Japanese, but not a Japanese expert and don't know the everyone's opinion, so there will be some people disagree with me.

Your insight would be correct. I'm Japanese as well. I'm male and not really following men's foreign skaters.... so my favorites are Takahashi and Kozuka. I would like to see some Korean male skaters.. that would be exciting!

[Bennett]

According to polls, Mao seemed to be the biggest medal hope (don't know which color) among the Japanese public at this Oly. Indeed, Japan won only 5 medals and no Gold. The other medal winners were relatively less famous compared to her. That's why Mao was the flag bearer at the Closing Ceremony. This was still a lot better than the last time when Shizuka's Gold was the only medal.

It seems that many ppl expected Dai to medal. Dai not only is popular, but also was one of the symbol athletes of the Japanese Olympic Committee (JOC) who make numerous commercial appearances to earn funds for the JOC. Besides, his comeback story was moving and ppl were happy to see him again.

There were also a longtime media favorite, Aiko Uemura, in women's mogul (another Symbol Athlete), a newbie 15-year-old young girl, Miho Takagi in speed skating, and the curling team who attracted a lot of attention. All of them are basically not only strong, but also pretty/cute.

Among Men's field, Stephane is very popular. Johnny has also long been loved very much in Japan, so has Jeff Buttle been. I think that they are a lot less known to casual viewers than the Japanese skaters who have a lot more media coverage. Yet, I hear that the numbers of flowers they get in skating events are comparable to and sometimes even more than those for Japanese skaters. There have been fan sites for them and dedicated fans who translate what they say and write.

A bit off topic, but I was just reading a Japanese sport magazine Number and found Johnny in the rose garland listed as among the top pick of about ten beautiful athletes in Vancouver (with "male" in parentheses (he was the only man in the list)). Other skaters listed were Kiira, Gedevanishvili, and Tanith.

I am not sure which other male skaters are particularly popular among the Japanese public. Men's field is so deep that I guess each skater attracts good fan base.

I think that Joubert is well known and popular. He won the Worlds title in Tokyo in 2007.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Abott becomes popular in Japan, as his skating may fall into one of the types of skating I listed above. Jeremy also seems kind of adorable and his coach-student relationship with Yuka Sato has increased his media coverage. If he had skated in the final group, he'd have increased # of fans a lot.

Of course, Oda and Kozuka are also very popular.