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Thread: Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

  1. #91
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    I was equating basic skating skills with the ability to get good grades of execution marks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    For example, Mirai's jumps have speed and height but she doesn't get rewarded for them as much as other top contenders. I think graceful landings should be rewarded IMAO. For example, I wouldn't give Flatt's jumps high GOE even if she gets the height because her landings are so sloppy and it is obvious to a viewer's eyes.
    I should look that up soon. I thought Flatt was hit hard on GOE this time, though. I'll look up the numbers. Yes, I definitely think graceful landings should be rewarded, but I think I would find it difficult to explain it to judges. Thank you for bringing it up, though. Maybe it could be reworded to "clean landings"? Hmm. Do you mean graceful as in "light" or graceful as in "seamless"? I'm personally for the seamless type. I want the jump to flow right after the landing, right into choreography or beautiful extension (but that is a point, kind of, so I guess you mean light?). I have to ask again though. Are you serious? Flatt gets high GOE ? Wow, I never looked it up because I just expected her to receive very little, if any. She looks like a hockey player on ice. No fluidity, no grace, no charisma. Just an athlete, fumbling through her program. Now even her jumps are sloppy.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I was equating basic skating skills with the ability to get good grades of execution marks.
    I partially agree with that. Skating skills rewards deep edges, speed, etc...Good grades of execution are often the result of having great skating skills but great skating skills not always translate to higher GOES. Take Lepisto's and Kostner's jumps for example. Lepsito's are not that high, and she doesn't have a lot of speed going into them despite having "butta" edges throughout her program. Kostner has the speed, height and coverage that rival Yuna's, except that landing part

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    I should look that up soon. I thought Flatt was hit hard on GOE this time, though. I'll look up the numbers. Yes, I definitely think graceful landings should be rewarded, but I think I would find it difficult to explain it to judges. Thank you for bringing it up, though. Maybe it could be reworded to "clean landings"? Hmm. Do you mean graceful as in "light" or graceful as in "seamless"? I'm personally for the seamless type. I want the jump to flow right after the landing, right into choreography or beautiful extension (but that is a point, kind of, so I guess you mean light?). I have to ask again though. Are you serious? Flatt gets high GOE ? Wow, I never looked it up because I just expected her to receive very little, if any. She looks like a hockey player on ice. No fluidity, no grace, no charisma. Just an athlete, fumbling through her program. Now even her jumps are sloppy.
    I didn't check her GOE this time around (but I assume she didn't get high ones since she got a lot of URs). However, I remember that her GOE was pretty comparable if not higher than Mirai's at Nationals. I know Mirai had downgrades but all of her landings were smooth and clean!

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I didn't check her GOE this time around (but I assume she didn't get high ones since she got a lot of URs). However, I remember that her GOE was pretty comparable if not higher than Mirai's at Nationals. I know Mirai had downgrades but all of her landings were smooth and clean!
    It may have been that Mirai was underscored in GOEs at nationals because of the downgrades.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    I partially agree with that. Skating skills rewards deep edges, speed, etc...Good grades of execution are often the result of having great skating skills but great skating skills not always translate to higher GOES. Take Lepisto's and Kostner's jumps for example. Lepsito's are not that high, and she doesn't have a lot of speed going into them despite having "butta" edges throughout her program. Kostner has the speed, height and coverage that rival Yuna's, except that landing part
    So I was saying that having so much GOEs piled on to the point where two major mistakes can become irrelevant is something that I don't understand. I don't think having the ability to execute elements with speed and crispness should be so highly measured to the point that you can make two mistakes and still win. I don't think it makes sense to a regular spectator like me. It's not speed skating, it's figure skating. And I truly don't understand why you get more scores for falling a fully-rotated jump than landing with an under-rotation. Really, it just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Why does that rule exist? Does falling on a fully rotated jump mean you have superior skating skills?

  7. #97
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    Ok. Can someone please translate what Mao actually said in her e-mail, because there are people saying she told her friend it wasn't fair, which I don't believe is actually what she said. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    So I was saying that having so much GOEs piled on to the point where two major mistakes can become irrelevant is something that I don't understand. I don't think having the ability to execute elements with speed and crispness should be so highly measured to the point that you can make two mistakes and still win. I don't think it makes sense to a regular spectator like me. It's not speed skating, it's figure skating. And I truly don't understand why you get more scores for falling a fully-rotated jump than landing with an under-rotation. Really, it just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Why does that rule exist? Does falling on a fully rotated jump mean you have superior skating skills?
    Who got superior scores on skating skills after falling on jumps? Look at Yuna's PCs scores and GOEs at SA compared to TEB and judge for yourself. If not for her short program scores, Yuna would not have passed Rachael when she made errors, so how are her GOEs making up for falling on two jumps? Besides, Yuna received 10 points in GOEs as early as 2007 when she was not such a heavy favorite and did not have as many transitions.

    I agree though that all scores were a bit inflated at the Olympics but that was for skaters in all disciplines.

    As to your question about why does the rule exist: well, it is to reward people who chose to include transitions, have great speed and flow and/or steps in and out of the jumps, all of which make the jump much more difficult, compared to people who can barely get off the ground to execute the jump, or worse, those who mule-kick their way in and/or two-foot/step out of it. I am not sure why that doesn't make sense. And yes, when you execute 7 jumping passes with high quality, points will add up.
    Last edited by yunasashafan; 03-02-2010 at 09:45 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Ok. Can someone please translate what Mao actually said in her e-mail, because there are people saying she told her friend it wasn't fair, which I don't believe is actually what she said. Thanks.
    Something like she was disappointed that she didn't get gold but is happy with getting the silver nevertheless? It was longer than that but that was the part that was highlighted in the news piece.

    Mao is so super forward-looking, and even when people give her an opportunity to blame the situation, she never does.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Something like she was disappointed that she didn't get gold but is happy with getting the silver nevertheless? It was longer than that but that was the part that was highlighted in the news piece.

    Mao is so super forward-looking, and even when people give her an opportunity to blame the situation, she never does.
    Thank you! I knew some people were misconstruing her words. That's why I don't like videos like this because I know it will be used by some people to portray a negative light on Mao when she's not even responsible for this video. Sigh.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    Who got superior scores on skating skills after falling on jumps? Look at Yuna's PCs scores and GOEs at SA compared to TEB and judge for yourself. If not for her short program scores, Yuna would not have passed Rachael when she made errors, so how are her GOEs making up for falling on two jumps? Besides, Yuna received 10 points in GOEs as early as 2007 when she was not such a heavy favorite and did not have as many transitions.

    I agree though that all scores were a bit inflated at the Olympics but that was for skaters in all disciplines.
    I think her short program score, particularly the GOE part, usually determines that she will win even if she makes two mistakes in the long program.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I think her short program score, particularly the GOE part, usually determines that she will win even if she makes two mistakes in the long program.
    Well that's a different story. Having a bad long does not negate the stellar short you did a day or two ago. Besides, that would be the case if she was competing in a weak field. When was Yuna's GOE score that much higher than a clean Mao or, recently, Joannie/Miki? At the Olympics, the difference between Mao and Yuna's GOE was 3 points, now tell me that was not deserved just by comparing the speed, equal height in combo jumps and flow out of the jumps.

    Same applies to difference in PCs between clean performance in the top group.
    Last edited by yunasashafan; 03-02-2010 at 10:25 AM.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    Well that's a different story. Having a bad long does not negate the stellar short you did a day or two ago. Besides, that would be the case if she was competing in a weak field. When was Yuna's PCs score that much higher than a clean Mao or, recently, Joannie/Miki?
    GOE + PCS in her short that gave sllightly less than 5 point lead over Mao at Olympics, and given that she could comfortably expect to get +2 GOEs on every element she succeeded in and get high PCS even if she made a mistake or two because PCS doesn't suddenly fall, she knew she could win with two mistakes. And I don't think Mao had been getting such high PCS for few tournaments. Anyway, it was the GOE, not PCS.

    I'm sorry, I really have to go now, but I enjoyed a rational discussion we had.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    GOE + PCS in her short that gave sllightly less than 5 point lead over Mao at Olympics, and given that she could comfortably expect to get +2 GOEs on every element she succeeded in and get high PCS even if she made a mistake or two because PCS doesn't suddenly fall, she knew she could win with two mistakes. And I don't think Mao had been getting such high PCS for few tournaments. Anyway, it was the GOE, not PCS.

    I'm sorry, I really have to go now, but I enjoyed a rational discussion we had.
    Yeah, I noticed that and amended my post accordingly. Still, the reason she gets those GOEs is that she is adding more to the jumps, so it's totally deserved, IMHO. Just like a double axel is worth so much more than a double Lutz, even though it has only half a revolution extra (same for 3A to 3Lz). It's a completely different approach to the jump. I wish Mao would bring back the transition-packed version of her program. Then we'd have a duel . Nobody else compares at this point, except maybe Joannie.

    I enjoyed the discussion too

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Something like she was disappointed that she didn't get gold but is happy with getting the silver nevertheless? It was longer than that but that was the part that was highlighted in the news piece.

    Mao is so super forward-looking, and even when people give her an opportunity to blame the situation, she never does.
    Yeah, It was like she worked hard aiming for the Gold, so she feels disappointed, but is happy that she can bring Silver to Japan.

    Then she says exactly the same thing in interveiws:
    "As I come back to Japan, many people have said to me congratulations. Now I feel happy. It is good that I could get the medal. I am disappointed about my performance. Half happiness and half disappointment. I take this Silver as a step for the next stage and will work hard for Sochi. When I got the medal at the ceremony, I had a disappointing feeling because my goal was the Gold but I felt a little happy when I received Silver. (To get the Gold, I need) to become a consistent skater throughout the season. Right now I am doing my highest-level jump(s) that I am currently capable of, but I can increase the kinds of jumps and incorporate 3-3. I'd like to work hard on other jumps during the off-season after Worlds."
    In Japanese
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...525-sanspo-spo
    Last edited by Bennett; 03-02-2010 at 10:06 AM.

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