Isn't taping the judges prohibited? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Isn't taping the judges prohibited?

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
I think I have a relatively unusual situation, so I would like to share it, if I may.

Although I live in the UK and have spent well over a half of my life here, I am Korean. Two of my best friends, whom I met at school in England, are Japanese and I speak all three languages fluently. I have been a FS fan for over 30 years but am passionate about many other sports.

Yes, there is no denying that there is a degree of deep-rooted animosity between the two countries. However, for most people, it is more of rivalry than hatred. We see it at work place, at school, in other sports - two top players ferociously competing but having not much against each other otherwise. Unfortunately, a small but significant sector in each nation do bear hatred and start sh*t-stirring whenever they see an opportunity, egging on others. Oh God, do the media love this! The rest of us range from disinterested to embarrassed. Do I root for Korea when they play against Japan in other sporting events? Of course I do - I'm Korean. Is it because I hate Japan? Nooo! I root for Korea regardless of who they play against, even if I know they are going to get absolutely thrashed! FS is different for me. My favorite female skater is Yuna at present, not because she is Korean but because I like her skating. My favourite male skater is Takahashi by miles. None of the pairs in recent years have stolen my heart because I still haven't got over Gordeeva/Grinkov.

Another factor is that FS is emotive as well as subjective to a degree. That, I think, is one of the reasons why I prefer this to, er, curling (apologies to curling fans out there), but it creates room for emotional arguments, more so than a match that was lost on a controversial foul call.

What is also significant in this situation is that both nations have fallen in love with the two girls before/rather than the sport. Perhaps it is not just these two countries, as far as FS is concerned; maybe we notice the individuals first, their countries next and then the sport. Not a very good example and not relevant to FS, but the following, I think, is a lovely story.

In men's 10000m speed skating, everyone KNEW the gold would go to Sven Kramer from Holland. Speed skating is HUGE in Holland, beyond most people's imagination. Kramer is unbelievably popular in his country. I mean, massive. He was skating last. With six pairs to go, this Korean skater, who had won silver in 5000m, is having a skate of his life. He actually overtakes the other skater's lap (unheard of at this level and quite embarrassing for the guy who also happens to be Dutch). Whenever this Korean boy skates past the Dutch crowd, do you know what they are doing? They are cheering him on, screaming their lungs out, because this guy is about to break the Olympic record, which he does. Then Kramer skates, makes the most ridiculous school-boy error (coach's fault!) and gets disqualified. He is devastated, the Korean guy gets the gold rather than silver (said afterwards he's happy about the gold but the victory feels incomplete because he won it through a stronger skater's mistake) and the Dutch crowd are still contratulating the medalists during the medal ceremony. They love the sport first and then their athletes who are good at it.

Sorry I'm rambling. It's just that there seem to be some misunderstandings and unduly strong emotions, occasionally irrational, on this board and I wanted to share my take on it for what it's worth. :)

However, if it had been a Korean who was beaten by Apolo, I somehow don't think the Korean contingent would be so overjoyed and supportive. Just saying.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
I think I have a relatively unusual situation, so I would like to share it, if I may.

Although I live in the UK and have spent well over a half of my life here, I am Korean. Two of my best friends, whom I met at school in England, are Japanese and I speak all three languages fluently. I have been a FS fan for over 30 years but am passionate about many other sports.

Yes, there is no denying that there is a degree of deep-rooted animosity between the two countries. However, for most people, it is more of rivalry than hatred. We see it at work place, at school, in other sports - two top players ferociously competing but having not much against each other otherwise. Unfortunately, a small but significant sector in each nation do bear hatred and start sh*t-stirring whenever they see an opportunity, egging on others. Oh God, do the media love this! The rest of us range from disinterested to embarrassed. Do I root for Korea when they play against Japan in other sporting events? Of course I do - I'm Korean. Is it because I hate Japan? Nooo! I root for Korea regardless of who they play against, even if I know they are going to get absolutely thrashed! FS is different for me. My favorite female skater is Yuna at present, not because she is Korean but because I like her skating. My favourite male skater is Takahashi by miles. None of the pairs in recent years have stolen my heart because I still haven't got over Gordeeva/Grinkov.

Another factor is that FS is emotive as well as subjective to a degree. That, I think, is one of the reasons why I prefer this to, er, curling (apologies to curling fans out there), but it creates room for emotional arguments, more so than a match that was lost on a controversial foul call.

What is also significant in this situation is that both nations have fallen in love with the two girls before/rather than the sport. Perhaps it is not just these two countries, as far as FS is concerned; maybe we notice the individuals first, their countries next and then the sport. Not a very good example and not relevant to FS, but the following, I think, is a lovely story.

In men's 10000m speed skating, everyone KNEW the gold would go to Sven Kramer from Holland. Speed skating is HUGE in Holland, beyond most people's imagination. Kramer is unbelievably popular in his country. I mean, massive. He was skating last. With six pairs to go, this Korean skater, who had won silver in 5000m, is having a skate of his life. He actually overtakes the other skater's lap (unheard of at this level and quite embarrassing for the guy who also happens to be Dutch). Whenever this Korean boy skates past the Dutch crowd, do you know what they are doing? They are cheering him on, screaming their lungs out, because this guy is about to break the Olympic record, which he does. Then Kramer skates, makes the most ridiculous school-boy error (coach's fault!) and gets disqualified. He is devastated, the Korean guy gets the gold rather than silver (said afterwards he's happy about the gold but the victory feels incomplete because he won it through a stronger skater's mistake) and the Dutch crowd are still contratulating the medalists during the medal ceremony. They love the sport first and then their athletes who are good at it.

Sorry I'm rambling. It's just that there seem to be some misunderstandings and unduly strong emotions, occasionally irrational, on this board and I wanted to share my take on it for what it's worth. :)
:thumbsup:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I think I have a relatively unusual situation, so I would like to share it, if I may.

Although I live in the UK and have spent well over a half of my life here, I am Korean. Two of my best friends, whom I met at school in England, are Japanese and I speak all three languages fluently. I have been a FS fan for over 30 years but am passionate about many other sports.

Yes, there is no denying that there is a degree of deep-rooted animosity between the two countries. However, for most people, it is more of rivalry than hatred. We see it at work place, at school, in other sports - two top players ferociously competing but having not much against each other otherwise. Unfortunately, a small but significant sector in each nation do bear hatred and start sh*t-stirring whenever they see an opportunity, egging on others. Oh God, do the media love this! The rest of us range from disinterested to embarrassed. Do I root for Korea when they play against Japan in other sporting events? Of course I do - I'm Korean. Is it because I hate Japan? Nooo! I root for Korea regardless of who they play against, even if I know they are going to get absolutely thrashed! FS is different for me. My favorite female skater is Yuna at present, not because she is Korean but because I like her skating. My favourite male skater is Takahashi by miles. None of the pairs in recent years have stolen my heart because I still haven't got over Gordeeva/Grinkov.

Another factor is that FS is emotive as well as subjective to a degree. That, I think, is one of the reasons why I prefer this to, er, curling (apologies to curling fans out there), but it creates room for emotional arguments, more so than a match that was lost on a controversial foul call.

What is also significant in this situation is that both nations have fallen in love with the two girls before/rather than the sport. Perhaps it is not just these two countries, as far as FS is concerned; maybe we notice the individuals first, their countries next and then the sport. Not a very good example and not relevant to FS, but the following, I think, is a lovely story.

In men's 10000m speed skating, everyone KNEW the gold would go to Sven Kramer from Holland. Speed skating is HUGE in Holland, beyond most people's imagination. Kramer is unbelievably popular in his country. I mean, massive. He was skating last. With six pairs to go, this Korean skater, who had won silver in 5000m, is having a skate of his life. He actually overtakes the other skater's lap (unheard of at this level and quite embarrassing for the guy who also happens to be Dutch). Whenever this Korean boy skates past the Dutch crowd, do you know what they are doing? They are cheering him on, screaming their lungs out, because this guy is about to break the Olympic record, which he does. Then Kramer skates, makes the most ridiculous school-boy error (coach's fault!) and gets disqualified. He is devastated, the Korean guy gets the gold rather than silver (said afterwards he's happy about the gold but the victory feels incomplete because he won it through a stronger skater's mistake) and the Dutch crowd are still contratulating the medalists during the medal ceremony. They love the sport first and then their athletes who are good at it.

Sorry I'm rambling. It's just that there seem to be some misunderstandings and unduly strong emotions, occasionally irrational, on this board and I wanted to share my take on it for what it's worth. :)

Thanks for sharing. That's kind of what I sense too -- that it's more rivalry than hatred. I mean there's a history that has created the tension that's left, but I sense that most people in Korea and Japan are focused on living their lives and not thinking a lot about how much they hate another country.

And the other thing that feeds into this Korea and Japan nationalism stuff is that Mao and Yuna have had such a long competitive history. The media has followed these two skaters for more than five years. You had these two tossing tiles back an forth — the JGPF, Jr. Worlds, the GPF, Worlds titles and finally the Olympics.

The good part of all this, though is that these two women have fuel a greater interest in figure skating in both countries and oddly enough the person who is probably most thankful for this is Johnny Weir, who has been able to skate in ice shows in Korea to pay for his training.

Speak of Kramer...that was SO sad. To have the skate of his life and then go down on an error that his coach made!
 

Puppylove

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
I sympathize with your situation, that you live in Japan(?), and encounter this slant---that Yuna's score was very big, and that the gap between Mao and Yuna should not have been so big---in the news. I'm sure I would hate to expose myself to Korean media right now.

But you know, I've seen some stuff that's very rational. I saw Takahiko Kozuka's father being interviewed on Nagoya local television news. The two newscasters asked him to analyze and explain the 23 point difference, and he very clearly said that it was because Yuna had speed, and because Mao made two mistakes in the latter-half of the program. It was quite funny to watch because I could tell that the newscasters were so wanting him to say that the gap was too big, make some critical comment about the judging criteria, but he didn't do that at all.


I also saw a piece on Zero on how both Mao and Yuna are receiving a heroine's welcome back in their respective countries. I learnt that Mao went to Chukyo University and was welcomed back in the auditorium by her university, and that Yuna had lunch with the Korean President after which she took a plane back to Canada. The comment they chose to include was one where Yuna said that she would miss being with other athletes. I thought it was a nice well-balanced piece. It was saying, 'Okay, the Olympics is over. Let's move on.'

I think until yesterday, there was alot of emphasis on the 23-point gap, but today, the focus is mostly on Mao's smiling image and the fact that she is already declaring her desire to participate in Sochi, and her determination to beat Yuna or her score even if she retires.

Incidentally, I also saw Mao being interviewed live by the local station, and the newscaster asked Mao at the end of the interview to say something to the fans, and she said something like, 'I want to thank everyone for cheering for me, and I am happy that I got the bronze medal, and...' at which point the interviewer intervened and said, 'Um, wait, wait, it's silver', and Mao said, 'Oh, um, well...' and the interviewer turned to the camera and said 'She's tired. Okay, we'll edit that out, this isn't a live interview. Just go on' and so she said, 'Yes. I'm glad I got the silver medal and I hope to do better at World's and go to Sochi. Thank you very much.' :laugh:

She must have been so jetlagged, and then to go through an endless number of interviews that ask the same questions over and over again. Her (and other star athletes who must go through the same thing) stamina and patience really amazes me. In every interview and photo I saw, she never lost her sunny smile. But her slip of the tongue kind of indicated to me that Mao's thoughts are not on the medal that she got but already on what lays ahead.:thumbsup:


Thank you very much for sharing this. See, most people, including professionals and media, in all countries are rational and sane!
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
A 3T has the same base value whether done after a quad, or a single jump. It doesn't matter. Her jumping layout has actually gotten easier these past 2-3 seasons or so with the exclusion of her 3Lo.

The original poster I quoted said Yuna used the same jump layouts every year which is not true at all.
Of course, it will not make any difference base value wise-which many posters find as one of the flaws COP has-just like you said. However it is unquestionable truth that 3Lz+3T is more difficult than 3F+3T or 3T+3T.
Most of 3-3 skaters do 3T-3T even they have other triples in their arsenals because it is simply more difficult to add that 3T after more difficult jumps.
That and the transitions in and/or out of her jumps just showcase Yuna's mastery of the jumps.
I just wish Yuna could get some due respects she deserves.

puppylove, thanks for sharing your experience. It was nice to read.:)
 
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Basics

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Wow~ This is a serious issue. So Japanese media actually spied judges with hidden cam while they were scoring? Well, I won't be surprised if JSF receives a major penalty because of this. If I were the judge, I would be really pissed.
 

Ren

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Hey guys, what does "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Association of Copyright for Computer Software" mean? Because that's what shows up now when I click the link posted on the first page of this thread. Oh, well. There's still the non-Korean subtitled one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxAN5rYRqaU (Holy cow, 151,000+ hits already.)
 

Morning Glory

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
The only reason Daisuke lost is because he tried a harder jump than Evan. And even so, in the SP, Takahashi still placed BELOW Evan when both of them skated clean, even though most people aruged that Takahashi had better skating skills. Yet, you hardly heard a peep from the Japanese fans.

It seems there's a inferiority complex to Westerners in Japanese culture and I don't think it's a healthy mindset.

As for the SP, Daisuke skated clean but not perfectly. His 3F-3T was not good than usual. Takeshi Honda worried about the UR.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Wow~ This is a serious issue. So Japanese media actually spied judges with hidden cam while they were scoring? Well, I won't be surprised if JSF receives a major penalty because of this. If I were the judge, I would be really pissed.

I don't think that the JSF is responsible for receiving penalty for what a TV program did. They are completely separate entities that should be distinguished. But the TV program should be responsible for whatever criticism and penalty they deserve if they didn't get permission in advance from the ISU.
 

Morning Glory

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
I don't live in Japan or Korea, so I haven't watched the television programs.

I do want to observe what I'm seeing here is the difference in perception. There is a group of people (including our media here in the U.S. and Canada) that seem to believe that what is driving this is this bitterness between Korea and Japan because of the past and so forth. There's another group that believes that such belief is exaggerated and that a Korean skater beating a Japanese skater is a victory, it's only the "icing on the cake" not the "cake" itself.

I went to Korea for a month-long professionals exchange in 2008 and my impression of the whole Japan and Korea relationship (based on talking to my host family) is while they're far from being best friends, it wouldn't be good to call them bitter enemies either. There have been efforts to reconcile and clearly the two countries support the other's economy in some way — I was in Seoul the first week of May, which is the Golden Week holiday for Japan. I had a really hard time getting a hotel room because of the Japanese tourists had booked most of the rooms well in advance.

And in K-Pop you got artists like BOA who actually do better in Japan than in Korea. And also groups like Kara, T-ara and SNSD who also play concerts in Japan with great success.

I don't know, I'm just processing my thoughts and just wanted to share and see what some of you guys thought.

Thank you for posting this! Don't forget TVXQ ( is this right? I mean Touhoushinki) and BIGBANG :)
 

Morning Glory

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Puppylove, thank you for your whole post :thumbsup:

In men's 10000m speed skating, everyone KNEW the gold would go to Sven Kramer from Holland. Speed skating is HUGE in Holland, beyond most people's imagination. Kramer is unbelievably popular in his country. I mean, massive. He was skating last. With six pairs to go, this Korean skater, who had won silver in 5000m, is having a skate of his life. He actually overtakes the other skater's lap (unheard of at this level and quite embarrassing for the guy who also happens to be Dutch). Whenever this Korean boy skates past the Dutch crowd, do you know what they are doing? They are cheering him on, screaming their lungs out, because this guy is about to break the Olympic record, which he does. Then Kramer skates, makes the most ridiculous school-boy error (coach's fault!) and gets disqualified. He is devastated, the Korean guy gets the gold rather than silver (said afterwards he's happy about the gold but the victory feels incomplete because he won it through a stronger skater's mistake) and the Dutch crowd are still contratulating the medalists during the medal ceremony. They love the sport first and then their athletes who are good at it.

I believe the same cases have already happened in FS. Yuna got a lot of applause in the competition held in Japan(2007 Worlds and GPF 2009), also Mao got a lot of applause in the competition held in Korea ( 2 4CCs).
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Yes, I do live in Japan, and the slant has annoyed me. The media coverage has been annoying me for a while -- and it's not always about Yuna v. Mao thing either. It's because of their heavy emphasis on Mao doing 3As to the point that I wonder if she really really wants that jump or if she believes she has to do that jump b/c that's what everyone expects of her, and she looked just miserable / depressed in some of the interviews, and I felt so sad watching Mao implode in Russia then having to face the media afterward. (And let's not forget the media's shabby treatment of Miki, etc.)

I don't know if it's the rivalry (JP hates losing to KR, and vice versa, and I think there are some JP people who really think that KR are subhuman or something) or if it's something else. Maybe they're mad that Yuna beat Mao by 23 points, but I'm pretty sure that if Mao had skated CLEAN LP, she would've easily scored over 140 b/c her TES would've gone up, and her PCS accordingly would've been much higher. Perhaps the media didn't want to upset Mao by focusing on the 2 mistakes that cost her so much, but they had to have known -- by looking at the protocols -- that the judges would've rewarded Mao handsomely for a clean LP. So I really cannot decide if they were just honestly that clueless or being willfully vindictive and evil.

Which btw is one of the reasons why I've not watched any news for the last 2 days because I couldnt' stand it. (not to mention my casual FS viewer friends demanding to know why Mao was scored so low and Yuna so high...!)

I"m glad Kozuka's father was fair (I didn't see that interview; I don't watch ZERO). I think that most experts understand the COP and how programs are being judged, and they tend to be much fairer and objective. I've never meant to imply that all Japanese peolpe are rude or mao-bots. If I've done that, I apologize.

I'm glad people are now moving onto "let's be happy for Mao" stage.

I didn't get an impression that the TV programs that you described conveyed evil or vindictive messages on her, even though these programs do seem to have a poor understanding of FS and have their favorite in their mind.

Besides, FS coverage in articles often come from sports papers that seem to be full of sensationalism just about everything. I only read some of them on the FS section of Yahoo Japan Sports and wouldn't take them too seriously. Yet, I've still seen quite a few Japanese articles that specifically focus on Yuna's victory though.

The ones that I see hatred most are on the Internet. Anyone who goes to Youtube for FS videos see those users who are active spreading hatred. But I wonder how many real friends these people have in their lives.
 
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qoo

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
I am quite surprise that they choose two similar types of music as Sp and Lp this year. I don't know, it seems that Mao was only considerd about the 3A the past season and didn't think other things that much.

Yes.. that annoyed **** out of me! She should have gone with the programs that show her strength.. but alas... well hope next year she will pick up something not so heavy. Team Yuna's strategy really worked and I'm actually happy for her cuz I can imagine how much pressure she had been under.
 

qoo

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
No, I think all the nastiness is actually because of Yuna's nationality. It obviously has a lot to do with the fact that she's Korean, as I've heard there are a lot of racist sentiments against Koreans in Japan. Like I said before, Evan is probably the most bashed skater on skating forums, yet I find it strange you don't hear one peep from Japanese skating fans about Evan when you see him place above Takahashi. However, the vitriol against Yuna is astounding. Frankly, it's embarrassing.Most of the nastiness against Yuna come from Mao or Japanese fans. Most non-Japanese skating fans who don't necessarily like Yuna are largely ambivalent about her and you don't them going out of their way to nasty to her. Whereas, when you see this kind of blind and erratic hatred against Yuna, you always find one assumption to be true: they are Mao fans.

In Japan, people way focus on ladie's figure skating than men's.. and that's evident from the TV coverage. what's more compared to Evan and Plushenko, Daisuke's jumping quality was not as good... but he got the best PCS among all the men competed. So most of people are happy for his bronze. (adding the fact that he got seriously injured)

I know there are previous Yuna fan among Japanese.. but that seemed to change after her comment on Japanese-attacking- her-during-a-practice session incident. But Yuna performed 2 excellent programs at the Olympics and that was really great achievement, and those performance surely help to make Japanese fans along with others.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Yes.. that annoyed **** out of me! She should have gone with the programs that show her strength.. but alas... well hope next year she will pick up something not so heavy. Team Yuna's strategy really worked and I'm actually happy for her cuz I can imagine how much pressure she had been under.

Mao said she's not going to choose such heavy music for next season, which is a huge relief. I'd love to see something delightful from her. Her earlier programs were just charming and fantastic, and I don't see why she can't go back to that.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
In Japan, people way focus on ladie's figure skating than men's.. and that's evident from the TV coverage. what's more compared to Evan and Plushenko, Daisuke's jumping quality was not as good... but he got the best PCS among all the men competed. So most of people are happy for his bronze. (adding the fact that he got seriously injured)

I don't think that Evan is well-known among Japanese casual viewers. Plush: he's relatively a lot more famous. But ppl would have been rather surprised if Dai had beaten Plush. Dai's been totally absent last season and his showing this season has not been good.
 

sunny0760

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I don't think that Evan is well-known among Japanese casual viewers. Plush: he's relatively a lot more famous. But ppl would have been rather surprised if Dai had beaten Plush. Dai's been totally absent last season and his showing this season has not been good.

Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

1. Before the olympics, how was the expectation of the Japanese general public about the possibility of Japanese men and ladies for winning at oly? For example, Takahashi 20%, Mao 20%? And how was figure fans' expectation about that?

(If you ask me about the same question in the Korean situation, I think most people in Korea were not very interested in Men's but generally knew about Plush, and they expected the possibility of Yuna winning was about 90%.)

2. Who is the most popular male skater in Japan? My impression is Joubert and Weir are very popular but their popularity is smaller than that of Japanese skaters?
 
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miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

1. Before the olympics, how was the expectation of the Japanese general public about the possibility of Japanese men and ladies for winning at oly? For example, Takahashi 20%, Mao 20%? And how was figure fans' expectation about that?
Actually I am more interested in Men's comp. than Ladies'. I think there are many people in Japan who expect Men's more than Ladies even if they are relatively fewer than those who are only interested in Ladies.

To be honest, I am getting tired of all the Yuna-Asada rivalry or non-rivalry fiasco. I knew Japanese media have always favored Asada but I had not known how big, big, big Asada is in Japan(Am I wrong?) until this oly. So let me ask a question. There seem to be many Japanese or Japan experts in this thread.

(If you ask me about the same question in the Korean situation, I think most people in Korea were not very interested in Men's but generally knew about Plush, and they expected the possibility of Yuna winning was about 90%.)

2. Who is the most popular male skater in Japan? My impression is Joubert and Weir are very popular but their popularity is smaller than that of Japanese skaters?

I think the most popular male skater is Dai, because he's the most experienced in the team now. And yes Mao is very big in Japan. Her popularity rivals idols and singers in Japan. I think it's not only due to her success in competitions but also because Mao has always been media friendly.
 
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