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I do think this is a reaonable assessment from what I've read. It's worth mentioning that the North American teams tend to be stronger in coming up with level four elements more consistently.
Will There Be a Shake-up in Russian Figure Skating
- Thread starter colleen o'neill
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I do think this is a reaonable assessment from what I've read. It's worth mentioning that the North American teams tend to be stronger in coming up with level four elements more consistently.
Why hasn't Russian had much input in developing the CoP? I have assumed that Russia would have been respected in the skating world.
I think it important that each country has an adequate amount of input in developing the rules, which is about incorporating and actualizing your skating philosophy in the system.
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- May 15, 2009
I thought it was the Canadians more than USA who were so active in formulating the CoP.
As to the Russians we should not forget their alleged involvement in the SLC scandal which led to CoP. If part of CoP's primary goal - under direct orders from IOC - was to eliminate cheating then it makes sense that certain federations with long histories of manipulation might not be the best to put together a more honest system. :think:
CoP is still evolving and new rules/rule changes are still being made. It is not accurate to say here only N. American federations are making/changing the rules or that no other federations had a say in CoP when it was initiated.
ISU is lead by Cincuanta - not a N. American.
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His mother followed him to St.Pete and they both rented a room in a communal apartment.
I thought it was the Canadians more than USA who were so active in formulating the CoP.
As to the Russians we should not forget their alleged involvement in the SLC scandal which led to CoP. If part of CoP's primary goal - under direct orders from IOC - was to eliminate cheating then it makes sense that certain federations with long histories of manipulation might not be the best to put together a more honest system. :think:
CoP is still evolving and new rules/rule changes are still being made. It is not accurate to say here only N. American federations are making/changing the rules or that no other federations had a say in CoP when it was initiated.
ISU is lead by Cincuanta - not a N. American.
But allowing one country to develop a scoring system and determine what gets the most points, gives that country an advantage over others, which isn't fair. And I laugh at the concept that the Canadians werent' politiking hard in Salt Lake. I love how nobody questions the fairness of S/P's world win the year before too.
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But not everything can be blamed on that. K&S's programs look like a COP nightmare with transitions and ugly positions to get levels everywhere. They messed up. No system rewards falls and bad landings.
It is not lack of CoP knowlege that gave Domina and Shabalin a horrific OD and injuried Max's knee.
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Maybe another poster can offer some info about the ISU rules committee.
I agree that it is unfair to let Canada or any other federation make the rules and/or adjustments to CoP.
I doubt this is the case and believe the ISU rules committee is not made up exclusively of N. Americans. If that is the case it would be wrong.
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http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/15468.html:
Zhenya lived without his parents for a year. Then, his mom Tatiana Vasilievna moved in with him. They rented a room in a communal apartment. "I remember that room in the communal flat that mom and I rented in our first year in Peter as a pure nightmare".
(http://plushenko.narod.ru/bio.html: Год прожил Женя один без родителей. Потом к нему, оставив в Волгограде мужа и дочь, приехала мама, Татьяна Васильевна.)
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The ISU Vice President for Figure Skating (and perhaps Cinquanta's heir apparent) is Canada's David Dore. He is the highest ranking person in the ISU on the figure skating side. Here is some information about his career (Wikipedia). (A lot more can be said about the Jean Senft incident.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dore
Dore is given credit for being the primary architect of and cheerleader for the CoP. Both the United States and Russia opposed various provisions of the CoP, and dragged their feet as much as possible in its adoption. (And they still are not crazy about it.
)
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Trying to get more info on Senft is not easy.The ISU Vice President for Figure Skating (and perhaps Cinquanta's heir apparent) is Canada's David Dore. He is the highest ranking person in the ISU on the figure skating side. Here is some information about his career (Wikipedia). (A lot more can be said about the Jean Senft incident.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dore
Dore is given credit for being the primary architect of and cheerleader for the CoP. Bo
th the United States and Russia opposed various provisions of the CoP, and dragged their feet as much as possible in its adoption. (And they still are not crazy about it.
As we all know, the the delay in finishing the CoP was done by Russia and USA but because of the scandal in SLC, Cinquanta wanted to put it into practice in two years. It had the makings of eliminating Collusions which the sport was labelled by the worldwide press. Cinquanta worked feverishly on this because of threats from the OIC. He never did resolve the collusion in SLC and the French got total blame for it. The CoP went into practice in the "B" comps and one lady cried I got a downgrade from a Triple to a Double and a penalty for overrotating the Double. The Cop needed a lot of work, and still does. Happy to hear that the matter will be taken up this year, but no praises until I read and understand the amendments, changes, addenda, corrections and of course the proposals.
The ISU Vice President for Figure Skating (and perhaps Cinquanta's heir apparent) is Canada's David Dore. He is the highest ranking person in the ISU on the figure skating side. Here is some information about his career (Wikipedia). (A lot more can be said about the Jean Senft incident.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dore
Dore is given credit for being the primary architect of and cheerleader for the CoP. Both the United States and Russia opposed various provisions of the CoP, and dragged their feet as much as possible in its adoption. (And they still are not crazy about it.
Is it fair to say that Canada takes initiative and leadership in COP? Then why not Russia and other countries? Don't they have important individuals in ISU?
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Russia has both the Chairperson for Singles / Pairs - Lakernik ..and for Ice Dance - Gorshkov.
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Thank you for the links Ptichka, i read it all last night!Amazing job you ve done!http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/../member.php?205-Ptichka
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I don't think one could say Russia has had no effect on COP: in fact, the pairs rules were like the time an acquaintance of mine whom we shall call Richard Jones, was playing penny poker with some friends. The custom was that the dealer named the version of poker that would be used for the hand. Some odd ones were Black Maggie's Drawers, for example. Dick said that the rules for this hand are Rich Wins. No one questioned it. ANd when the hand was over, Richard scooped up the pot, saying, rules are, Rich Wins, and my name is Rich.
In 2006, T&M's win over the Chinese pairs was driven by rule changes so extensively that the rules were "T&M win". I assume that Russia gave up something, and it probably was the ice dance rules, which suddenly became very lift centric (more lifts counting more) (helping D&L to medal when they had never done so before) and incidentally penalizing B&A because fewer step sequences were included.
This year, Russia's problems are partially their own. Plush and Mishin put out programs that were not COP friendly. DomShabs are essentially a preCOP couple with health problems. In pairs, either Russian team could easily have medalled, but they didn't skate well.
One of the reasons that DomShabs weren't all that COP friendly is their imposing size, which makes difficult lifts and quick stepping much more difficult.
However, a look at this year's Jr Worlds shows that there are 3 very good Russian junior dance teams, and I would not be at all surprised if one or more of them medalled at Sochi.
In 2006, T&M's win over the Chinese pairs was driven by rule changes so extensively that the rules were "T&M win". I assume that Russia gave up something, and it probably was the ice dance rules, which suddenly became very lift centric (more lifts counting more) (helping D&L to medal when they had never done so before) and incidentally penalizing B&A because fewer step sequences were included.
This year, Russia's problems are partially their own. Plush and Mishin put out programs that were not COP friendly. DomShabs are essentially a preCOP couple with health problems. In pairs, either Russian team could easily have medalled, but they didn't skate well.
One of the reasons that DomShabs weren't all that COP friendly is their imposing size, which makes difficult lifts and quick stepping much more difficult.
However, a look at this year's Jr Worlds shows that there are 3 very good Russian junior dance teams, and I would not be at all surprised if one or more of them medalled at Sochi.
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