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Thread: Kavaguti and Smirnov punishment for failure in Vancouver

  1. #31
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    We praise and reward athletes when they do well, so it's only fair we shame and punish them when they don't. It's not a coincidence that when a team loses, we say they got beaten, because back in the day, that's exactly what would happen to such laggards. Regular beatings would do wonders to cure skaters of all kinds of bad habits, from bad posture to incorrect jump entries. Of course, skaters are already used to pain, so one must keep that in mind and use proportionally greater force.
    Not sure if I can agree with your theory about this. Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

    Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.
    Last edited by janetfan; 03-04-2010 at 02:28 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    We praise and reward athletes when they do well, so it's only fair we shame and punish them when they don't. It's not a coincidence that when a team loses, we say they got beaten, because back in the day, that's exactly what would happen to such laggards. Regular beatings would do wonders to cure skaters of all kinds of bad habits, from bad posture to incorrect jump entries. Of course, skaters are already used to pain, so one must keep that in mind and use proportionally greater force.
    You have a good point. When someone is doing well, fans and the media are all over them. However, when they are not doing so well, it seems a lot of people and the media are quick to judge and criticize them. Maybe for some coaches, it's the same. But I guess that's life right? When you're doing well, everyone loves you. But when you're not, those who praise you most are first to run away.

  3. #33
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    I believe that Tamara's "punishment" to her skaters are measured to the point to make them aware and make them better. It won't break them. Tamara is such a smart, strict, and loving person. I have high respect for her. It's just a media's hype for a gushing story. The soviet methods have worked for decades. It'll work this time too. Their country just currently doesn't have the talents to be on the top. I agree with the people who said that no matter how hard they try, they couldn't be on the top at this Olympics. The best they could hope for was a bronze finish if they have had a skate of their life at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

    Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.
    If Miki felt that it was a punishment, she would have left Morozov long time ago. I thought Miki's costume was stunningly beautiful. Of course Johnny Weir couldn't wear it. I am puzzled at your "sacrifices" comment. What did she sacrifice? Maybe you have problem with every Russian coach?
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 03-04-2010 at 03:06 PM.

  4. #34
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    I believe that Tamara's "punishment" to her skaters are measured to the point to make them aware and make them better. It won't break them.
    Glad to hear these talented young skaters will not be broken but only punished in a nice way
    Last edited by janetfan; 03-04-2010 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by janetfan
    Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

    Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.
    lol...it's too bad that Morozov lost all of his fresh ideas for choreography for single skaters. I don't like his programs anymore. I still like Miki though.

  6. #36
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    Thos inflated scores at Euro must have made Tamara believe she could still hypnotize judges. This pair finished fifth at GPF and how the earth could they suddently become gold medal contenders?

    Time to them to retire.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Not sure if I can agree with your theory about this. Look at Miki for instance - just training under Morozov should be punishment enough and yet she also has to skate to his choreo and is forced to wear costumes even Johnny would not be seen in publicly.

    Yet despite making such unholy sacrifices she failed to medal in Vancouver.
    She won the Worlds 2007 and got Bronze at Worlds 2009 under Morosov. She seems grateful to his support. Her LP is not Morosov's work.
    Although she happened fail to medal, it would have been a close comp if it were not for the 3-3 attempt at SP.

  8. #38
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    I think though that Tamara has a right to be angry with her team for not listening to her about the quad, and I also think that while they weren't gold medal favorites, if they had skated well they actually could have won gold or at least a medal, considering how poorly everyone else skated.

    It in the end depends on how they are treated, it sounds like from the one interview, things really aren't that bad.

    This being said is there is an article which says the Russians have made an offer for Tatiana Volohozhar to skate for Russia. And talk is that the partner may end up being Trankov.

  9. #39
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    This being said is there is an article which says the Russians have made an offer for Tatiana Volohozhar to skate for Russia. And talk is that the partner may end up being Trankov.[/QUOTE]

    Really? Are they actively planning to get rid of their respective partners? I can't imagine that Maria is ready to retire, and isn't she considered the stronger of the two in that particular pair?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibs View Post

    Really? Are they actively planning to get rid of their respective partners? I can't imagine that Maria is ready to retire, and isn't she considered the stronger of the two in that particular pair?
    Someone else said on here in another thread that Stanislav Morozov already said he WANTED to retire. Idk about Maria though.

  11. #41
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibs View Post

    Really? Are they actively planning to get rid of their respective partners? I can't imagine that Maria is ready to retire, and isn't she considered the stronger of the two in that particular pair?
    Tatiana's partner is 31, and he's ready to retire. He also believes in her talent, and has reportedly been talking about her getting a new partner for awhile. It's been out for awhile that she was getting someone new after the Olympics.

    In Trankov's case, no Maria's not considered the strong partner. Many feel Trankov is the best male partner in the world. His missing the side by sides in the Olympic short was an utter fluke, the guy lands 3/3s in practice. She though until this season had issues with the side by side jumps, and even now it seems can't handle hard transitions etc. A lot of people have wanted the Tatiana/Maxim pairing for years.

    As for Maria being ready to retire, I don't think that matters as much as what Maxim and Tatiana want. Maxim/Maria have never gotten along very well, nor does Oleg and Maxim. For example talk is he didn't want to skate to Love Story, that was her.
    Now that the word is Tatiana, is getting a new partner, he may just decide that greener pastures is the way for him to go.
    Last edited by bekalc; 03-05-2010 at 01:15 AM.

  12. #42
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    Oh Come on Russia!!
    You have to realize boosting PCS marks with steroids does not guarantee a medal, for God's sake.
    What are you going to do? Exile them to Siberia? LOL
    Last edited by RumbleFish; 03-05-2010 at 02:10 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Oh Come on Russia!!
    You have to realize boosting PCS marks with steroids does not guarantee a medal, for God's sake.
    What are you going to do? Exile them to Siberia? LOL
    What is this comment meant to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    I sometimes get the impression that certain Russian officials and coaches are ..... delusional. Gold was never a realistic expectation and someone needs to slap Moskvina, hard, if she thought it was.
    They were a solid possibility for bronze if they skated very well and the Germans or a Chinese team faltered. They should be happy with fourth. And .... who else does Moksvina (or the Russian federation in general) have in the pipeline? They're talking mighty tough for a federation that badly needs K/S.

    Perhaps they're trying to keep K/S from realizing that at present the federation needs them more than the other way around?
    I agree they should be happy with 4th - it was a generous placement considering how many mistakes they made. They should have been lower.

  15. #45
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Will there be a change of partners after the Worlds? That's a good follow-up question.

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