Interview With an Olympic Judge | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Interview With an Olympic Judge

Jaana

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But Evan at the WC had help from other skaters who messed up ...

Hmm..., are there any cases where the winner in e.g. WC or OG did not have help from other skaters, because they messed up more or less?
 
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antmanb

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Feb 5, 2004
Hmm..., are there any cases where the winner in e.g. WC or OG did not have help from other skaters, because they messed up more or less?

Off the top my head - the 1998 Olympic Ladies competition - not a single error from the three podium ladies (ignoring Chen's 3/3 which - who was she kidding she was never going to land it, but she still stood up).

1996 Ladies World - Chen and Kwan were foot perfect and it came down to judges marks.

I want to say at least one (if not two) of the Stojko/Eldredge showdowns in the mid 90s.

Yagudin and Pluscehnko late 90-early 2000s - certainly 2002 SLC - of course Plushenko took hmiself out in the SP, but the LPs didn't come down to errors, and Yags still got it.

Of course all of my examples bar none are under 6.0...COP is not so much about error-free programmes!

Ant
 

bibi24

Final Flight
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Dec 31, 2009
Off the top my head - the 1998 Olympic Ladies competition - not a single error from the three podium ladies (ignoring Chen's 3/3 which - who was she kidding she was never going to land it, but she still stood up).

1996 Ladies World - Chen and Kwan were foot perfect and it came down to judges marks.

I want to say at least one (if not two) of the Stojko/Eldredge showdowns in the mid 90s.

Yagudin and Pluscehnko late 90-early 2000s - certainly 2002 SLC - of course Plushenko took hmiself out in the SP, but the LPs didn't come down to errors, and Yags still got it.

Of course all of my examples bar none are under 6.0...COP is not so much about error-free programmes!

Ant

Those battles were epic....

1996 Worlds, Todd & Kulik both skated clean and perfect, I guess Kulik in the LP did 2 3Fs, but none in combo, so probably one of them was discounted.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
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Mar 25, 2008
Hmm..., are there any cases where the winner in e.g. WC or OG did not have help from other skaters, because they messed up more or less?
Just to add to Ant's 6.0 examples:
  • Stephane Lambiel at 2006 Worlds clearly won on merit, and it was a great battle between him and Brian Joubert.
  • I think that although the other teams made mistakes, it's obvious that Totmianina and Marinin won the OGM in 2006, rather than the other teams losing it. Same goes for Plushenko in the men's event that year.
  • Yu-Na Kim at 2009 Worlds.
  • Irina Slutskaya at 2005 Worlds.
  • Shen and Zhao in 2007.
Obviously in ice dance, where teams are less prone to obvious mistakes, we've had many winners who didn't need help from others.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
What about Plush's so-so skate in 2006, there were others that could have won tha,t but the Men's division turned into a splatfest. Plush deserved to win despite the humongous PC scores which were not needed because of his reputation anyway as well as the splatfest.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Calgary 1988, "Battle of the Brians," still considered one of the greatest nights of skating.

Lake Placid 1980 - Ladies LP - Potzsch, Fratianne and Biellman all skated their best.
 
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seniorita

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Jun 3, 2008
What about Plush's so-so skate in 2006, there were others that could have won tha,t but the Men's division turned into a splatfest. Plush deserved to win despite the humongous PC scores which were not needed because of his reputation anyway as well as the splatfest.

His sp was not so and so, 4-3 and all crystal clean and the drama of Tosca that judges seemed to love, and Lp was watered down in anything else, but still the jumps were clean apart from a flip or something, I think it was clear back then that none would be close if he was clean.

My fav between Plush and Yag was grand prix final 2002 where there was one judge difference between then and they both were fighting for the title, amazing competition.

And in CoP days, I realy enjoyed the mens Worlds 2008:love:, I dont remember many splats there.
 

let`s talk

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Sep 10, 2009
Speaking of manipulation, was there any of the 30 skaters in Olys being dragged in media for their weaknesses in various aspects of their skating apart from Plush? He has many weakness sure, did media bothered with any other skater? Can you name one? Before the competition after the sp and before and while the LP? I havent seen a single reportage of the weakness of Lambiel, Joubert, Oda, Dai, you name it or anyone who threatened the precious Gold.

Morning shows and I saw extended reports of his practices, did he wear black or not, did he jump 4 quads in practice or not, did he spoke to Mishin, did he glance anyone while skating, did he blow his nose? Oh he did blew it two times, what does this mean?? From Quadchenko villain to he should be marked around 4 in pcs in broadcast from commentators just before the sp had even started , to quad vs artistry , comments from Caroll that he has not much anything else contrary to some else who have artistry and quality (artistry who? They were not talking about Lambiel or Abott). Accompanied with laughs and irony and in the Gala they remembered ah what an amazing athlete he is. I read silently all these days and I dont think Plush should have won or something, neither I applause his reactions but I hate one way bashing, you miss the big picture and I dont know many skaters who could have handled this pressure for long, sometimes people react at the end.

It looks like the champion was decided in advance but they were so scared of Plush`s ghost that they pushed all the dirty buttons available in their possession.

Who wants me to repect the result?
 

dorispulaski

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Country
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It is not always a pleasant thing to be the favorite going into the Olympics (which Plush was, both to me, and to the media). So of course they reported on the state of his quad and his nose. Endlessly. They did the same about YuNa, another prohibitive favorite. However, giving the coaches (think Carroll) of competitors media space to bash him was not right & not cool. IMO.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It is not always a pleasant thing to be the favorite going into the Olympics (which Plush was, both to me, and to the media). So of course they reported on the state of his quad and his nose. Endlessly. They did the same about YuNa, another prohibitive favorite. However, giving the coaches (think Carroll) of competitors media space to bash him was not right & not cool. IMO.

Which media are you referring to?
There was a fluff piece on Plushy but during NBC's coverage I never saw an interview with Carroll -not even after Evan won.
I expected to see more on Yuna but there was more covergae on Apollo, Lindsey, Julia, Bodie, etc.

NBC slanted their coverage towards USA athletes that were winning or contending for medals in many various different sports. I don't think i can recall watching an Olympics before that had such little coverage of skating.
 

Jaana

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1996 Worlds, Todd & Kulik both skated clean and perfect, I guess Kulik in the LP did 2 3Fs, but none in combo, so probably one of them was discounted.

Ilia did a mistake, he forgot to jump triple flip in combination (as he did earlier in Centennial On Ice competition).

As in this case, generally somebody wins because his nearest competitors do a mistake of some kind, at least something more than what the winner did, LOL.

- OG 1988 in freeskate Orser had two mistakes, I believe
- OG 1992 Petrenko was not faultless, but he had a triple axel combination
- OG 1994 Stojko did not magage to jump the quad, Urmanov even with his one mistake was better 8-1
- OG 1998 Ilia was clearly the best, Stojko did not jump the quad and had he some other problem, too? I don´t want to watch his skating willingly, so I cannot check, LOL
- 2002 Plushenko had a mistake in sp and did he have something also in fs?
- 2006 Plushenko was best, the others had mistakes
- 2010 Lysacek was best, Plushenko (shaky jumps) and Takahashi had some mistakes

I was not 100 % clear in my previous posting, I meant in men´s competitions (not in ladies, pairs or ice dance).
 
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Layfan

Record Breaker
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Nov 5, 2009
Hmm..., are there any cases where the winner in e.g. WC or OG did not have help from other skaters, because they messed up more or less?

Well, true, there are few cases where the winners don't have some help so it wasn't a particularly meaningful point, I suppose. I made the point in the context of a discussion on whether Johnny Weir was hurt going into the Olympics as the USA number three. And someone pointed out that Evan won the world title as the USA bronze medalist. But I think Blades of Passion made a better point when he said that regardless, Evan was still seen as the top US men at the 2009 worlds because of his international record...
 

Layfan

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His sp was not so and so, 4-3 and all crystal clean and the drama of Tosca that judges seemed to love, and Lp was watered down in anything else, but still the jumps were clean apart from a flip or something, I think it was clear back then that none would be close if he was clean.

My fav between Plush and Yag was grand prix final 2002 where there was one judge difference between then and they both were fighting for the title, amazing competition.

And in CoP days, I realy enjoyed the mens Worlds 2008:love:, I dont remember many splats there.


I've rewatched that competition several times recently with all the discussions of quads and I agree it was so amazing. Yags and Plush were simply stellar and Goebel did a great job, too. It feels like it was a better competition than 2010... but 2010 feels like a better competition than 2006 when Plush was the runaway champion and everyone else was just kind of there. I feel like this year the men were deep but there weren't two huge standouts like Yags and the Plush of 2002. Man, that was a good year.
 

Layfan

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Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Ilia did a mistake, he forgot to jump triple flip in combination (as he did earlier in Centennial On Ice competition).

As in this case, generally somebody wins because his nearest competitors do a mistake of some kind, at least something more than what the winner did, LOL.

- OG 1988 in freeskate Orser had two mistakes, I believe
- OG 1992 Petrenko was not faultless, but he had a triple axel combination
- OG 1994 Stojko did not magage to jump the quad, Urmanov even with his one mistake was better 8-1
- OG 1998 Ilia was clearly the best, Stojko did not jump the quad and had he some other problem, too? I don´t want to watch his skating willingly, so I cannot check, LOL
- 2002 Plushenko had a mistake in sp and did he have something also in fs?
- 2006 Plushenko was best, the others had mistakes
- 2010 Lysacek was best, Plushenko (shaky jumps) and Takahashi had some mistakes

I was not 100 % clear in my previous posting, I meant in men´s competitions (not in ladies, pairs or ice dance).

orser had one or two minor mistakes but so did boitano. One of them had a step out I think and the other had a two foot. something like that.

Plush had a mistake in his LP in 2002. Yags left out his second 3a. Scott Hamilton made a huge deal about that wondering if Goebel might have won the freeskate over Yags. Yeah right... Yags one by a mile as he should have.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
orser had one or two minor mistakes but so did boitano. One of them had a step out I think and the other had a two foot. something like that.

Plush had a mistake in his LP in 2002. Yags left out his second 3a. Scott Hamilton made a huge deal about that wondering if Goebel might have won the freeskate over Yags. Yeah right... Yags one by a mile as he should have.

I don´t know about Boitano´s mistakes, Orser anyway had more obvious ones. And that is the reason Boitano won. I don´t think that in those days the judges had the benefit of the slow-motion?

Yagudin definetely deserved to win. Maybe Scott just wanted to make a rather boring competition more interesting for American audiences by mentioning Goebel, LOL? Anyway, Yagudin´s freeskate performance was not magical or even wonderful, he was the last to skate and playing it safe very clearly. He gave a better performance in WC 2002, where he had to participate, because Plushenko was injured and Russia needed his help for next WC.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Ilia did a mistake, he forgot to jump triple flip in combination (as he did earlier in Centennial On Ice competition).

As in this case, generally somebody wins because his nearest competitors do a mistake of some kind, at least something more than what the winner did, LOL.

- OG 1988 in freeskate Orser had two mistakes, I believe
- OG 1992 Petrenko was not faultless, but he had a triple axel combination
- OG 1994 Stojko did not magage to jump the quad, Urmanov even with his one mistake was better 8-1
- OG 1998 Ilia was clearly the best, Stojko did not jump the quad and had he some other problem, too? I don´t want to watch his skating willingly, so I cannot check, LOL
- 2002 Plushenko had a mistake in sp and did he have something also in fs?
- 2006 Plushenko was best, the others had mistakes
- 2010 Lysacek was best, Plushenko (shaky jumps) and Takahashi had some mistakes

I was not 100 % clear in my previous posting, I meant in men´s competitions (not in ladies, pairs or ice dance).

I didn't realise you had meant just the men!

To be honest I think 1998 in the Men's was the same as the ladies event. Yes Stojko was injured, but he'd been suffering with the injury for the entire season and everyone knew he couldn't do the quad because of the groin injury. He still went out with 8 triples and performed to the best of his (injured abiilty) and I don't think put a foot wrong (from memory). The stars also alligned for Philipe Cadeloro that night and i think he also managed 8 tiples (two triple axels and a 3T/3T combination) plus that Dartagnan programme of his which was the first of his I actually enjoyed.

I have said it time and again but 1998 Mens and Ladies was a pretty amazing competition because of the clean medal performances from all 6 medalists (i'm talking LP which i remember clearly but i'm fairly certain the SPs must have been otherwise they'd have been out of the running for the LP under 6.0). It's painful to watch Elvis limping off the ice (and knowing that it would take the best part of 2 seasons for him to heal...take note all quad advocates!).

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
orser had one or two minor mistakes but so did boitano. One of them had a step out I think and the other had a two foot. something like that.

Plush had a mistake in his LP in 2002. Yags left out his second 3a. Scott Hamilton made a huge deal about that wondering if Goebel might have won the freeskate over Yags. Yeah right... Yags one by a mile as he should have.

Yags also had practically an illusion spin on the end of his triple flip too - his head went right down towards the ice and how he didn't put a hand or foot down is beyond me.

I think Plush's only mistake was a step out (and probably under-rotation not that it would have mattered then) on the 3LP at the end of the opening 4/3/3 attempt.

Ant
 
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