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Thread: Why is China allowed to send three pairs to 2010 Jr. Worlds

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    Why is China allowed to send three pairs to 2010 Jr. Worlds

    Something is wrong. China's total points at 2009 Jr. Worlds' pairs competition were 19=8+11 > 13. According to the rule, they were qualified to send TWO pairs to the next Jr. worlds. How the earth are they allowed to have three pairs in this competition?

    Can anybody explain?

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    I've been wondering about that too since I saw the entries.. If they are allowed then so should be everybody else..

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    I've been wondering too...
    A chinese pair has won the JGP Final, but a japanise girl and a japanise boy has won too, and Japan has only one girl and one boy to the JW...
    Maybe is there an exception for pairs, which have sometimes lack of participants? But I've never seen a thing like this before in the ISU rules.

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    I know pairs at the JGP level have no limitations, i.e. each country can send 3 pairs to each of the events where a pair event is skated, so that might be the case -- there aren't even enough Junior pairs to have them compete at all 7 JGP's!

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    This whole thing about 'filling-in-gaps' should be explained by the ISU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kypma View Post
    I know pairs at the JGP level have no limitations, i.e. each country can send 3 pairs to each of the events where a pair event is skated, so that might be the case -- there aren't even enough Junior pairs to have them compete at all 7 JGP's!
    Not true. New rules were put in last year after the last JW.

    Before the rule change all teams could send 3 entries each JGP with a host country sending unlimited entries.

    Now the new rules say only the top 5 countries at JW can send 3 entries to each JGP. Countries 6 -15 can send 2 pairs to each event and all other countries can send 1 pair to each event.

    These new rules really have very little effect on the entries as only CAN, USA, RUS and CHN pretty much have all the quality pairs in any given year. I know that there is a good Japanese team this year but that is the exception rather than the rule.

    Things can get interesting if more of the countries that traditionally don't have any quality junior pairs put out good pairs

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    Make sure you don't assume the same entry rules for Jr Worlds and Jr Grand Prix.

    Here's a cached view of the ISU's list of entrants for ISU championships for 2010--Communication #1565 document was issued in May 2009. Scroll to appropriate place and you will see under World Juniors, Pairs: "China 2 pairs."

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    read this article.
    It says that it has really been a mistake by the ISU!

    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/curre...se%20Pairs.htm

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    The lowest-placed pair has now been removed from the final standings. This statement appears at the bottom of the rankings:

    Due to a wrong entry the pair - Xiaoyu Yu / Yang Yin - from China, placed originally 8th in the final result, had to be deleted. In the corrected versions of each result of segment and Final each of the lower placed couples will move up accordingly. Due to the deletion of the pair Xiaoyu Yu / Yang Yin from China, which was originally qualified for the final Free Skating, only 15pairs will belisted for the final result as having skated the Free Program.

    This is absurd. It's as if the pair had cheated to achieve their placement.

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    Yu / Yin should never have competed at JW 2010 to begin with. China sent two pairs last year, and their placements added up to 19. The rules for the number of entries at JW are the same as they are for Worlds, so China had no right to send 3 teams to JW 2010.

    It is right that Yu/Yin are disqualified and their prize money and points redistributed to the teams placing behind them. It's too bad for the team, but it is the only way to make things right for the 13 teams that legitimately deserved to be at JW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Yu / Yin should never have competed at JW 2010 to begin with. China sent two pairs last year, and their placements added up to 19. The rules for the number of entries at JW are the same as they are for Worlds, so China had no right to send 3 teams to JW 2010.

    It is right that Yu/Yin are disqualified and their prize money and points redistributed to the teams placing behind them. It's too bad for the team, but it is the only way to make things right for the 13 teams that legitimately deserved to be at JW.
    I understand the mistake that occurred, but it is not the only way to make things right for the other teams. This pair's entry into Jr. Worlds was accepted by the ISU and they competed fairly. Their results should still be official. I could see making the Chinese federation split among all three teams the prize money won by the top two teams, and recalculating points for the teams from other federations. There is no reason to penalize in this way the one team that happened to finish third of the three Chinese teams. They are being treated as if they failed a drug test or attacked their opponents.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-19-2010 at 06:13 PM.

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    You're essentally arguing that they should make the official result meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    You're essentally arguing that they should make the official result meaningless.
    It would be meaningless for the Chinese Federation, but would still have some meaning for the skaters. As competitors, I am sure that they would prefer that their results are included on their ISU bio. And, if it is left to the Chinese Federation to distribute the prize money among their teams, then Yu and Jin could still get some money for their efforts without taking any away from the teams representing other federations.

    I haven't seen any explanation for why the third place (among the Chinese) team has had to bear the entire penalty. What if they had finished ahead of Zhang and Wang? Would Z and W then be the pair that had illegally competed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUKen View Post
    I understand the mistake that occurred, but it is not the only way to make things right for the other teams. This pair's entry into Jr. Worlds was accepted by the ISU and they competed fairly. Their results should still be official. I could see making the Chinese federation split among all three teams the prize money won by the top two teams, and recalculating points for the teams from other federations. There is no reason to penalize in this way the one team that happened to finish third of the three Chinese teams. They are being treated as if they failed a drug test or attacked their opponents.
    No. The third team competed ILLEGALLY because the Chinese federation and the ISU both made mistakes. That team should not have been there at all. It is unfair to the teams LEGALLY competing at JW to have a non-entry finish above them.

    The third team has lost the ISU ranking points and (I presume) the prize money for finishing 8th. All the teams from 9th-21st have been moved up one placement and have received the corrected number of ISU ranking points.

    The third team DID get the experience of competing at JW, and that is invaluable. So it's not a win-lose situation at all.

  15. #15
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RUKen View Post
    This pair's entry into Jr. Worlds was accepted by the ISU and they competed fairly. Their results should still be official.
    I seems beyond belief that Yu and Yin themselves did not know that they were entered improperly. They can read the ISU rules, they can count to thirteen.

    I am certain that they, like all other elite skaters, examine the ISU rules closely in order to calculate where they stand. I cannot believe that they were just innocent bystanders all ignorant of the rules of the competition.

    Let's face it. The Chinese Federation tried to get away with something. It didn't work.

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