Dance FD | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Dance FD

SamuraiKike

Medalist
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Ok, now that I've seen the performances I must say PaulIslam were awfully OVERATED. Very slow spin, messy twizles, and an overall unpolished look, fighting for finish every element. The girl looks like a young Tessa and they have presence though. However, both Shibs and M&K had much better flow and overall quality of elements that Im very dissapointed in the outcome of this competition.


Gold is out of the question. I&K are russian future. I would have given silver to Shibutanis and Bronze to MonkoKhaliavin. Havent seen the italians .
 

100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Thank you for the videos! There was no way I would have scored P/I the way they were here. I/K were amazing!! :love: They really deserved this placement--even though I am not a fan of their FD, they were so smooth and really quite senior-esque. The Shibutanis should not at all have been off the podium this time :/
Disappointing scoring this time :unsure:
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I guess I'm in the minority - I thought Paul/Islam were great. Great program with interesting moves skated with a lot of flow and speed and with interesting transitions.
 

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Thanks for the video. I/K deserve Gold medal, I love their lines and presence on ice, particularly Ilinykh, she's gorgeous! However, the scores were way inflated, IMO. I've never seen any teams got level 4 in steps, even Oly.medalists. The PCS also all around 8 which were higher than many top 10 of the world. It made the sport look bad when scores can be inflated out of reality. The technical specialists and judges have no consistency when they judge the skaters from one to the other competition. It's a shame!!
 

sophie

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
I've never seen any teams got level 4 in steps, even Oly.medalists.

NHK Trophy
ORIGINAL DANCE - NtMiSt4 (Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE)

Cup of China

ORIGINAL DANCE - NtMiSt4 (Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO)
FREE DANCE - CiSt4 (Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO)

ISU Grand Prix Final

ORIGINAL DANCE - CiSt4 (Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE)
FREE DANCE - DiSt4 (Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR)
FREE DANCE - CiSt4 (Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE)

European Championships

ORIGINAL DANCE - NtMiSt4 (Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI)
FREE DANCE - CiSt4 (Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI)
FREE DANCE - DiSt4 (Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT)

winter olympics

ORIGINAL DANCE - FAIELLA Federica / SCALI Massimo (NtMiSt4) and DAVIS Meryl / WHITE Charlie (CiSt4)
 
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bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Thanks for the video. I/K deserve Gold medal, I love their lines and presence on ice, particularly Ilinykh, she's gorgeous! However, the scores were way inflated, IMO. I've never seen any teams got level 4 in steps, even Oly.medalists. The PCS also all around 8 which were higher than many top 10 of the world. It made the sport look bad when scores can be inflated out of reality. The technical specialists and judges have no consistency when they judge the skaters from one to the other competition. It's a shame!!

Well maybe the judges gave them that score because they consider them top 10 in the world already material. If not higher.They are a simply incredible team not only technically but artistically-already. This is a team that is going to move up fairly. And I'm not sure how the North Americans can complain when Virtue/Moir medaled at their second worlds. Its not longer wait your turn in dance.
Gold is out of the question. I&K are russian future. I would have given silver to Shibutanis and Bronze to MonkoKhaliavin. Havent seen the italians .

The Italians were third in the free dance. Shibs fourth, and MonkoKhaliavin fifth. The Italians would have had the bronze if it weren't for a lift deduction. Many there said their tango was better than the Shib's tango.
 
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piano18

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Ice dancing is not all about twizzles and spins (unless you are an Igor Shpilband team who need to rely on those elements (and lifts) :laugh: to compensate for not having superior skating skills and speed). I'd have Monko ahead of P/I. Stronger skaters than P/I even if the FD doesn't look like a blues. Will have to wait to watch the Italians.

No way would I have Shibutanis close to M/K and I/K. Only being able to execute elements is not enough, Shibutanis. Also they seem to have chosen an "introvert" style of skating ala V/M but are not mature enough to pull it off YET. Look forward to watching Shibutanis in 2018 when they have developed more style and speed and skills.
 

SamuraiKike

Medalist
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
During the GOE era the top juniors team have always received really high scores with season bests among the to top 10-15 including seniors but then the next year, when they move up, they drop in scores considerably (just ask BobSoloviev, SamBates and specially ChockZuerlein this year). IMO, the main reason is that unlike singles and pairs where the jumps and combos do make a difference between senior and junior, in dance both levels have the same elements and it all comes down to GOE and PCS, which are never gonna be as high for the young teams when compared to the senior veterans. The main exceptions that confirm this rule are of course V&M and D&W who were too damn good and skating phenomens at such young age to not get the recognition.
 

SamuraiKike

Medalist
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Ice dancing is not all about twizzles and spins (unless you are an Igor Shpilband team who need to rely on those elements (and lifts) :laugh: to compensate for not having superior skating skills and speed).

That is true, but P&I are barely equal in SS and no way superior in speed than three of the teams they just surpassed here.
 

piano18

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
The Shibutanis really need to work on their speed but that will come with time. I'd have their SS marks quite low. Their edge--edge transitioning is not that quick and smooth and the changes of edge can be crisper, deeper, but that is just me nitpicking. Again their "introvert" style ala V/M will develop and hopefully we will see them in 2018 when they've developed more STYLE and skills and speed and not just only knowing how to execute technical. stuff.

I am probably the 0.00000255% of population who had NO problem with Chock/Zuerlein winning over Shibutani/Shibutani last season. Judging was fair.


IMO I/K are even better than when V/M won in 06 (yes different era, different requirements but pretty comparable) If they stay healthy and don't stagnate they have a chance to beat V/M and D/W in Sochi, that is if they don't stagnate like Samuelson/Bates or Bobrova & her partner!!!
 
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100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Ice dancing is not all about twizzles and spins (unless you are an Igor Shpilband team who need to rely on those elements (and lifts) :laugh: to compensate for not having superior skating skills and speed).

Ok, we all get it. You're not a fan of igor Shpilband, but lumping all of his teams into one group of so-called insuperior skills and speed just sounds ignorant. Obviously the judges and the public don't mind what he is doing or else they wouldn't have named his teams to the Gold and Silver medals at the Olympics. And if you think they're unjustified--well you may well be one of the "0.00000255%" of the population like you want.
I don't get what you mean by "introverted" skating style either. I've never seen a top ice dance team that showed aboslutely zero emotion and skated with their arms and faces stoic as your statement would imply. Especially when comparing it to V/M. I guess anything without flamboyant arm movements or excessive exaggeration is "introverted" to you.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Seriously. Especially since the team generally considered the fastest is a Shpilband team.

Didn't watch the I/K one. I hate their costumes, and I've ranted about it before. Paul/Islam... well, it was an interesting program and they have presence, but they're so unrefined
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I think the Shibutanis do some things quite well - like, their twizzles are top notch and they have good lifts. I wouldn't call them introverted, though - I think they are more robotic (I don't mean this in a bad way, necessarily). Like they haven't learned to emote and reach the audiences yet, which is quite normal for a young team.
 

piano18

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
I never meant introverted as a bad thing!!! It's a GOOD thing, they have an introverted style ala V/M as in the more inward expression (as opposed to OTT/flamboyance of some of the other teams)... except Shibutani/Shibutani don't have that....magic(magic? :laugh:) or should i say ability to take the audience into their own "world" just yet. Robotic is probably best to describe them at this point. need to work more on the emotional side of skating, but as i said in my second post, i'll wait for 2018 for them to develop this.

and Shibutani/Shibutani are good, the execution of element by element is well done. Nice lift(opening position of the first one taken from v/m's 07 fd :laugh: but thats expected, Igor's teams all share lifts and footwork and choreography)

Icenetwork decided to publish no article about the dance competition/results. lol
 
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oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
That's hardly surprising considering the "lovely" article they published when the Shibutanis were only 3rd in the JGPF. Their reporting is terrible. For the first JGP event last year, they didn't even mention Shelepen or I/K as contenders, when anyone could've typed in their names on YT and seen what they are capable of. Not to mention that I/K at the time finished 4th at Russian nationals - and Russian ice dance teams are always a threat in the JGP. Some time last year, they also misspelled Murakami and all the names of the Russian pairs teams (this was I think a couple of seasons ago).
 
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piano18

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
That's hardly surprising considering the "lovely" article they published when the Shibutanis were only 3rd in the JGPF. Their reporting is terrible. For the first JGP event last year, they didn't even mention Shelepen or I/K as contenders, when anyone could've typed in their names on YT and seen what they are capable of. Not to mention that I/K at the time finished 4th at Russian nationals - and Russian ice dance teams are always a threat in the JGP. Some time last year, they also misspelled Murakami and all the names of the Russian pairs teams (this was I think a couple of seasons ago).

Is it :

The silver medalists, Elena Ilinykh and Nikita Katsalapov, also from Russia, presented a routine to music from the movie Schindler's List.

The Russians, who are not Jewish, have encountered criticism that they are trivializing a black period of history by attempting to tell the story in an unsuitable medium. Ilinykh is dressed in a grey and white striped concentration camp outfit and is shot at the end.
 

piano18

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Yes, IN gets a lot of foreign/European names wrong. How many times have I read Fabian Bourzart before they finally get it right. lol
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
What I got from the tone of that article is that they were trying to imply that the Russians won because of politics and not on their own talent.

Marina Zoueva, who coaches the Shibutani siblings, said, "I can't explain why Maia and Alex got Level 2 on their diagonal steps. They received Level 3 in previous competitions. I've had other experts come up to me to say they don't know why, either."
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
So much scoring in Ice Dance is based on reputation. I hardly think this will affect the Shibutani's 4th place. After all it is still top 5. we have to watch I/K in the near future. I mean like who expected it?
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
So much scoring in Ice Dance is based on reputation. I hardly think this will affect the Shibutani's 4th place. After all it is still top 5. we have to watch I/K in the near future. I mean like who expected it?

Uh...I/K have been touted as potential JW winners since their first JGP event this year.
 
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