Noticed from the FS protocols that of the top 5 skaters--all of whom tried both 3Z and 3F, only Ovcharova got clean edges with no calls for flutz or lip. Hope the rest of ladies work on technique and clean these up by time they start seniors, they will be forces to be reckoned with.
She is 13 now (will turn 14 in 2nd April), isn't she too young for SGP? (I don't know the age rules for senior GP)Originally Posted by Lucky Star
I understand the desire to go to the seniors but eg. Polina is soooo child, I couldn'd see any expression at all, the music (Romeo & Juliet) was way too heavy and powerful to her. She is a gorgeus skater but she is very junior. IMHO skaters shouldn't rush too fast to the seniors. I'm tired of junior-looking and junior-leveled skaters in seniors, when it should be LADIES skating, not GIRLS skating.
I also wonder the thoughts of eg Alissa's retirement. How old is she, 22? I think she is in the best age of skating, mature and ready to express. Well, I don't know if she has said something of retiring, it's different then. I also wonder the thoughts of Rachael's studying. Why is it too difficult to combine sports and studying? In Finland it's very possible, eg. Kiira studies in university and can practise a huge amount of hours in a week.
But Ovcharova got -GOE on nearly all of her jumps, while the other top skaters had mostly clean jumps other than the edge calls. Ovcharova may have the correct edge on jump entries, but she has obviously got problems with her overall jump technique if she can't land her jumps cleanly. She had the highest SP score, but dropped significantly because of her messy FS.
About Alissa: she has always had problems with consistency, often related to her inability to completely rotate her jumps. She may have become quite discouraged after winning Nationals in 2009, then placing 10th in 2010 and not making the Olympic team. While her non-jump elements are superb, it isn't possible to have great success when she can't get her jumps (and her nerves) under control. She recently parted company with her coach of many years and to my knowledge hasn't named a new coach, so her continuation in competition is up in the air.
About school and skating: it is possible to combine education and skating, depending on the school attended and the area of study. Emily Hughes tried to balance Harvard and skating and skating took a back seat; all her successes occurred before she went to college and she's struggled since. Rachael says she plans to skate and go to school, but she is also attending a top-rated college (Stanford) and will major in the biological sciences, which means she will have heavy lab time. I don't know what Korpi is studying, but I have noticed her skating is not as good as it was a year or so ago.
Last edited by chuckm; 03-14-2010 at 09:40 AM.
In order to skate on the senior GP you have to be 14 by July 1st of that year, so Polina WILL be old enough to skate seniors next year. I don't know if that is the best idea, but if she wants to she will likely be able to do fine barring any growthspurt. I don't know if Polina Shelepen and Anna Ovcharova will also try and skate on the SGP next year, but I'm actually less concerned about those two if they do go to seniors as they at least look older and more mature than Agafonova.
As for Alissa, I think she will retire. She has joined stars on ice and I think she just doesn't have the consistency or technical ability to be at the top. She is a lovely skater, but it's not like she can bank on going to worlds again next year or anytime soon just with the competition being so stiff in the US. She has won a national title and that is a great accomplishment.
Anna does have the right edge take-offs on all her jumps, but I actually think her messy performance yesterday was mostly do to nerves. She said before the SP that she was very nervous and then after unexpectedly being in 1st she probably felt a lot of pressure. I'm not saying she has really smooth jumps or anything, but she has improved a lot recently and her jumps at both the Senior and Junior Russian nationals, and in the SP at JW, looked much better than the ones in her LP here. She also attempts all her jumps out of difficult footwork and transitions which makes it tough to hang on, i'm actually surprised at this because she is only 13 (turns 14 in a few days) and probably just got her triples recently, I think she was on the novice level just last year. She has a lot of potential and where she has the difficult triples (flip, lutz) at such a young age with no edge problems, and the spins/spirals/expression, and is already a decent height she can probably work on finesse and consistency and adding more difficulty (3-3) in the coming years and if she does those things I think she could be really good.
She studies economics in Tampere university. She has said that she actually has a lot more time to practice now when she is in university (she can choose courses she has time to do) than when she was in Finnish high school which was pretty hard time. Kiira had an injury at season 08-09, she has been better this season than last 2 seasons.
I don't know the US college system, it seems more "school-like" than Finnish system.
Alissa already has a college degree, so if she went back to school it would be for a master's or some other higher degree. She earned her bachelor's while skating full-time.
Anna O: I also thought the messiness was due mostly to nerves. But maybe chuckm is right and there are some underlying technique issues there. Will have to watch some more.
Rachael, college + skating: If Rachael is going into the bio-sciences, it will be a relatively rigid schedule with labs and other stuff. Much less room for flexibility than if one is studying one of the humanities or social sciences. Stanford is no cakewalk either. No aspersions to Alissa and her educational achievements, but while continuing to skate, she went to a much less demanding type of university, in a much more flexible curriculum. I have my doubts that Rachael can simultaneously do both and not have either education or skating (or both) suffer. Michelle Kwan started down that path at UCLA but had to cut down on classes, then finally concentrate only on skating and defer continuing her higher education until a later time.
Agafonova has come a long way in just a year. This time last year, she only had a consistent toe and salchow and was just adding the 3Lz to her programs. And now she's a Junior World medalist with a consistent 3Lz+3T! I'm so glad it's getting ratified after she had so many downgrades on her first event this year. And her spins are as lovely as always.
I don't think staying junior is a terrible idea. She's tiny, so it takes her a long time to get across the ice even though she's not slow. She also needs to work on expression. But her jump technique is not bad, aside from her 2A.
I agree with you about Rachael. It won't be easy for her to miss so much class and lab time traveling all over the world for grand prix competitions and such. Granted, she managed to do so well in highschool while training a lot and missing a lot of school but college will be different, a lot of professors don't allow students to miss more than say 3 classes a semester. Alissa took most of her courses online, only took 4 classes a semester (she took classes over the summer most years, took 5 years to graduate I think), and was an international studies and foreign language major so she could study her French and Russian while at competitions, while Rachael will have a tough time doing science work while traveling, as she needs to be in labs. I also don't know where she will train, but she will have a new coach and likely have to travel a distance to train. If anyone can manage school and skating, Rachael can, although I wouldn't be surprised if she was unable to maintain the very high level of skating she is at now.
As for Anna, I think nerves were definitely a factor, but she does have iffy technique on some of her jumps, although it does not appear to be anywhere near as bad as someone like Caroline Zhang's technique. It's good news that she does not flutz or lip, and from what I can tell her 2a is very solid. I know she just got her 3t recently so that may need more work, and 3loop is a tricky jump for most people. For a junior and a young one at that her PCS are pretty high, and she does have the desired body type for a figure skater with her long thin limbs, and judging from her frame I don't think she will be one of the girls who will fill out a lot and really change body types. She has plenty of time to get more polished and I think if she continues to make progress she could become competitive on the European if not the World stage.
I like Polina A, and I actuallly find you saying her technique isn't bad to be a rellief except for that 2A which can hopefully be fixed.. I noticed that her 3lutzs are pretty big for her height with distance, which is a good sign. I'm actually not so sure if she's giong to get that big if she's this tiny now. However if she can keep her jumps and I think if the technique is good and she doesn't grow huge or fill out to much, she may be able too. Growing a bit will maybe help her move accross the ice. Its a good sign that she's not slow.
But I agree about her being better off in Juniors. However, the concern is they do have so many talented kids and so little spots.
I know you said you think Agnes should stay in Juniors, but I really disagree. I think Agnes's skating is ready for Seniors, and I think she would do well there. Mirai Nagasu had nothing to lose by staying in juniors becuase she wasn't age eligible for Worlds. Agnes is age eligibile and I think she has the ability to make the world team. But it will be difficult for her to do so if she's skating the JGP. I think that at Seniors she has the potential to do as well as Wagner-if not Rachael Flatt because her jumps skating stand out.
I agree about it not being a good idea for Agnes's Senior GP debut to be her second international competition. But they could always send her to Senior B events, early in the season for some seasoning and exposure.
I think Agnes at this point will do better in Seniors than Gao and Christina may actually be better off on the JGP this season because her skating is still Juniorish.
"Rachael says she plans to skate and go to school, but she is also attending a top-rated college (Stanford) and will major in the biological sciences, which means she will have heavy lab time."
Rachael has never said that she planned to attend Stanford, she has only mentioned that she got accepted to Stanford. I think that her ability to skate and go to college will depend on the college she attends, how close the rink is, and who the coach is. I agree that if she chooses Stanford, it will be very difficult due to the lack of top level coaches in the immediate area. If she gets in and chooses Harvard, it will be easier for her to continue skating, as the rink is close and SCOB has top coaches (although the academics might be daunting). If she goes to University of Denver, she'll probably be fine with skating and school.
The reason why I think Agnes should do a season in the JGP is that she will get lost in the shuffle in the GP. She has no resume and a low ISU Rank, so she'll probably be the first to skate the SP and will get low PCS scores. Judges tend to base PCS on reputation, and an unknown skater isn't going to be cut any breaks in that department. She's also young (turns 16 in July) and might tend to look juniorish compared to the more experienced skaters. She will most likely finish mid-pack in her GP events, which will mean her ISU rank won't get much of a boost. As an unknown younger skater, she won't be able to build any momentum.
If she does a year in the JGP, she can earn lots of ISU points while earning medals--probably even a JGPF medal---and will build herself a sterling reputation so that when she does debut in the GP, she will get recognition and higher placements.
Rachael Flatt's year in the JGP, where she won silver in the JGPF and gold at JW, really helped her the following season. She won a silver medal in her first year in the GP and went on to Worlds, where she placed 5th.
But it's up to Agnes and her coach to decide what she wants to do.
But Rachael wasn't looking to make the world team that year and she didn't even have any international competitions. In Agnes's case, if she does some Senior Bs her ranking will actually improve, and she'll get a little more exposure with the international judges.
And I wouldnt' say she has "no resume" a Junior World Silver medal is not "no resume". And if Agnes doesn't make the world team, she'll get sent to Junior worlds next year (likely) where she could have a shot at medaling again and helping her ranking some more.
Last edited by bekalc; 03-14-2010 at 01:49 PM.
Thank you for the Japanese girl's link-wow is all I can say-and so cute at the medal ceremony-she genuinely seems like a super nice kid. Does anyone have the link for Agnes? I can't find any youtube for her!
Looking towards next year, it should be interesting to see who rocks the JGP series. The jump out of steps will be the double or triple loop, and quite a few skaters from this year either don't have it or struggle with that jump. Doesn't mean they can't work on it over the summer, but right now:
From Junior Worlds, Polina Agafonova (RUS), Kate Charbonneau (CAN), Kiri Baga (USA) and Joshi Helgesson (SWE) have never done a triple loop in ISU competition. Christina Gao has only done a 3Lo at Junior Worlds and it wasn't clean.
The following skaters from the top 12 Junior Worlds all did or have done 3Lo and might be on the JGP next year: Agnes Zawadzki (USA), Polina Shelepen (RUS), Anna Ovcharova (RUS), Julia Pfrengle (GER) and Lena Marroco (FRA).
Skaters who will likely be on the JGP next year who weren't at Junior Worlds and have a 3Lo: Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Adelina Sotnikova, Sofia Biryukova, Roza Sheveleva and Kristina Zaseeva (all RUS); Haruka Imai, Karen Kemanai, Yuki Nishino, and Yukiko Fujisawa (all JPN); Yretha Silete and Mae Berenice Meite (FRA).
McKinzie Daniels and Marissa Secundy were the only ones aside from Zawadzki to have have a ratified 3Lo at US Junior Nationals, but I don't think they'll get assignments, as they finished out of the top 5. From Senior Nationals none of Gao, Kawamura, Gong or Cesario did a 3Lo. I'm assuming Angela Maxwell, Kristine Musademba and Kanako Murakami will all be moving up.
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