Ladies FS

Whatever happened to Kiri. She was like dynamite last season? I still think she is the wave of the future. Don't know Agnes. Was she really better than Kiri, if Kiri was at her best?

Joesitz said:

Whatever happened to Kiri. She was like dynamite last season? I still think she is the wave of the future. Don't know Agnes. Was she really better than Kiri, if Kiri was at her best?

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Agnes is a better jumper where Kiri is more of a mini-Sasha, she is a great spinner, very flexible, and a very emotional performer, but technically she does not have the most difficult programs and struggles with consistency. She had two very rough performances (scores in the 70s and 3 falls) in the LP at the GPF and at nationals, so it was nice to see her rebound and do well in the LP here. Agnes has huge jumps and is a good all-round skater, but isn't as graceful and artistic IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aptGHXzTCk

Here's a video of Kanako's LP. Although Kanako is called "mini-Mao" in Japan, I have noticed she is quite different from Mao as a skater. Kanako isn't as light as Mao at 15 but she seems more powerful on ice. Maybe because Kanako is not as waiflike as Mao was at that age. She does seem more mature and elegant for a 15 year old. Also she does have better spins than Mao at that age.

Joesitz said:

Whatever happened to Kiri. She was like dynamite last season? I still think she is the wave of the future. Don't know Agnes. Was she really better than Kiri, if Kiri was at her best?

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Kiri doesn't even have all the jumps yet, and so I didn't think she'd be a factor. I don't think Kira even has a triple lutz, and can barely do a triple flip. So unless she really improves jumpwise, I don't see her being a big factor.

As for Agnes, I like Agnes a lot from the clips I've seen. She has huge jumps, the best Jumper of all the US girls. The best jumper in terms of BIG JUMPS to come from a US girl in a long time. The US hasn't had a girl with a lutz like her's since Kerrigan. Even though she doesn't do 3/3s yet.. With this girl, a JUMP is a Jump. She also has good spins not Nagasu level but she can spin etc. Now she's not a pretty pretty ballerina, but I think she has nice presentation too. She performs to the audience etc. Pays attention to the music. Not everyone is going to be "pretty pretty". It would be boring if they were.

The USFSA knew darn well that Agnes was their up coming skater with the most potential. And if it wasn't a fluke at sectionals, she'd have won Junior Nationals a year ago. But they still stupidly didn't give the girl a JGP assignment so she could get some international experience.:disapp: Frankly I like Agnes a lot better than Flatt and Wagner.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MaDDaMforum#p/u/1/Ic2HkdjiGVM
Polina Agafonova FS. She was wonderful! Love the spins and she has a nice presence, even if puberty messes up her jumps, it shouldn't mess up her gorgeous spins and great presentation

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MaDDaMforum#p/u/0/dG4-txBUiUc
Anna Ovcharova FS. Not as bad as I thought it would be, she fought through it and good for her for landing those two sequences at the end after falling twice.

miki88 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aptGHXzTCk

Here's a video of Kanako's LP. Although Kanako is called "mini-Mao" in Japan, I have noticed she is quite different from Mao as a skater. Kanako isn't as light as Mao at 15 but she seems more powerful on ice. Maybe because Kanako is not as waiflike as Mao was at that age. She does seem more mature and elegant for a 15 year old. Also she does have better spins than Mao at that age.

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That was great! Kanako reminds me more of Yukari than Mao, Mao has those long legs and Kanako is shorter and skates with more speed and energy. She is lovely, hope to see her in seniors next year!

silverlake22 said:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MaDDaMforum#p/u/1/Ic2HkdjiGVM
Polina Agafonova FS. She was wonderful! Love the spins and she has a nice presence, even if puberty messes up her jumps, it shouldn't mess up her gorgeous spins and great presentation

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MaDDaMforum#p/u/0/dG4-txBUiUc
Anna Ovcharova FS. Not as bad as I thought it would be, she fought through it and good for her for landing those two sequences at the end after falling twice.

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Polina is so adorable Her spins are fantastic. I hope she endures through puberty, because she is just great.

miki88 said:

Polina is so adorable Her spins are fantastic. I hope she endures through puberty, because she is just great.

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I know she really is something. I hope Anna can become more consistent too, I really like her skating as well and she has those long limbs that the judges love and an adorable infectious personality - it seemed a little bit lacking in that program but she must have either been really nervous or just having an off-night. I want to see Kiri's LP apparently she did really well and I love her skating too!

a very cute moment during the victory ceremony (both agnes and kanako!) when agnes was climbing onto the podium.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n69TALQ_RVs

miki88 said:

Polina is so adorable Her spins are fantastic. I hope she endures through puberty, because she is just great.

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Yeah, she is my favorite ))) So tiny and so cute! I like her very much and hope to see on the Senior Grand Prix next year, Russia has lots of talented girls who will go to the JGP next year, so I think Polina could go to Seniors.
As for Gerboldt, she decided to try in pairs

Polina's FS in better quality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbvonvGBDMU

Noticed from the FS protocols that of the top 5 skaters--all of whom tried both 3Z and 3F, only Ovcharova got clean edges with no calls for flutz or lip. Hope the rest of ladies work on technique and clean these up by time they start seniors, they will be forces to be reckoned with.

Lucky Star said:

Yeah, she is my favorite ))) So tiny and so cute! I like her very much and hope to see on the Senior Grand Prix next year, Russia has lots of talented girls who will go to the JGP next year, so I think Polina could go to Seniors.
As for Gerboldt, she decided to try in pairs

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She is 13 now (will turn 14 in 2nd April), isn't she too young for SGP? (I don't know the age rules for senior GP)

I understand the desire to go to the seniors but eg. Polina is soooo child, I couldn'd see any expression at all, the music (Romeo & Juliet) was way too heavy and powerful to her. She is a gorgeus skater but she is very junior. IMHO skaters shouldn't rush too fast to the seniors. I'm tired of junior-looking and junior-leveled skaters in seniors, when it should be LADIES skating, not GIRLS skating.

I also wonder the thoughts of eg Alissa's retirement. How old is she, 22? I think she is in the best age of skating, mature and ready to express. Well, I don't know if she has said something of retiring, it's different then. I also wonder the thoughts of Rachael's studying. Why is it too difficult to combine sports and studying? In Finland it's very possible, eg. Kiira studies in university and can practise a huge amount of hours in a week.

bigsisjiejie said:

Noticed from the FS protocols that of the top 5 skaters--all of whom tried both 3Z and 3F, only Ovcharova got clean edges with no calls for flutz or lip. Hope the rest of ladies work on technique and clean these up by time they start seniors, they will be forces to be reckoned with.

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But Ovcharova got -GOE on nearly all of her jumps, while the other top skaters had mostly clean jumps other than the edge calls. Ovcharova may have the correct edge on jump entries, but she has obviously got problems with her overall jump technique if she can't land her jumps cleanly. She had the highest SP score, but dropped significantly because of her messy FS.

About Alissa: she has always had problems with consistency, often related to her inability to completely rotate her jumps. She may have become quite discouraged after winning Nationals in 2009, then placing 10th in 2010 and not making the Olympic team. While her non-jump elements are superb, it isn't possible to have great success when she can't get her jumps (and her nerves) under control. She recently parted company with her coach of many years and to my knowledge hasn't named a new coach, so her continuation in competition is up in the air.

About school and skating: it is possible to combine education and skating, depending on the school attended and the area of study. Emily Hughes tried to balance Harvard and skating and skating took a back seat; all her successes occurred before she went to college and she's struggled since. Rachael says she plans to skate and go to school, but she is also attending a top-rated college (Stanford) and will major in the biological sciences, which means she will have heavy lab time. I don't know what Korpi is studying, but I have noticed her skating is not as good as it was a year or so ago.

AnnaTheMusician said:

She is 13 now (will turn 14 in 2nd April), isn't she too young for SGP? (I don't know the age rules for senior GP)

I understand the desire to go to the seniors but eg. Polina is soooo child, I couldn'd see any expression at all, the music (Romeo & Juliet) was way too heavy and powerful to her. She is a gorgeus skater but she is very junior. IMHO skaters shouldn't rush too fast to the seniors. I'm tired of junior-looking and junior-leveled skaters in seniors, when it should be LADIES skating, not GIRLS skating.

I also wonder the thoughts of eg Alissa's retirement. How old is she, 22? I think she is in the best age of skating, mature and ready to express. Well, I don't know if she has said something of retiring, it's different then. I also wonder the thoughts of Rachael's studying. Why is it too difficult to combine sports and studying? In Finland it's very possible, eg. Kiira studies in university and can practise a huge amount of hours in a week.

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In order to skate on the senior GP you have to be 14 by July 1st of that year, so Polina WILL be old enough to skate seniors next year. I don't know if that is the best idea, but if she wants to she will likely be able to do fine barring any growthspurt. I don't know if Polina Shelepen and Anna Ovcharova will also try and skate on the SGP next year, but I'm actually less concerned about those two if they do go to seniors as they at least look older and more mature than Agafonova.

As for Alissa, I think she will retire. She has joined stars on ice and I think she just doesn't have the consistency or technical ability to be at the top. She is a lovely skater, but it's not like she can bank on going to worlds again next year or anytime soon just with the competition being so stiff in the US. She has won a national title and that is a great accomplishment.

Anna does have the right edge take-offs on all her jumps, but I actually think her messy performance yesterday was mostly do to nerves. She said before the SP that she was very nervous and then after unexpectedly being in 1st she probably felt a lot of pressure. I'm not saying she has really smooth jumps or anything, but she has improved a lot recently and her jumps at both the Senior and Junior Russian nationals, and in the SP at JW, looked much better than the ones in her LP here. She also attempts all her jumps out of difficult footwork and transitions which makes it tough to hang on, i'm actually surprised at this because she is only 13 (turns 14 in a few days) and probably just got her triples recently, I think she was on the novice level just last year. She has a lot of potential and where she has the difficult triples (flip, lutz) at such a young age with no edge problems, and the spins/spirals/expression, and is already a decent height she can probably work on finesse and consistency and adding more difficulty (3-3) in the coming years and if she does those things I think she could be really good.

chuckm said:

I don't know what Korpi is studying, but I have noticed her skating is not as good as it was a year or so ago.

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She studies economics in Tampere university. She has said that she actually has a lot more time to practice now when she is in university (she can choose courses she has time to do) than when she was in Finnish high school which was pretty hard time. Kiira had an injury at season 08-09, she has been better this season than last 2 seasons.

I don't know the US college system, it seems more "school-like" than Finnish system.

Alissa already has a college degree, so if she went back to school it would be for a master's or some other higher degree. She earned her bachelor's while skating full-time.

Anna O: I also thought the messiness was due mostly to nerves. But maybe chuckm is right and there are some underlying technique issues there. Will have to watch some more.

Rachael, college + skating: If Rachael is going into the bio-sciences, it will be a relatively rigid schedule with labs and other stuff. Much less room for flexibility than if one is studying one of the humanities or social sciences. Stanford is no cakewalk either. No aspersions to Alissa and her educational achievements, but while continuing to skate, she went to a much less demanding type of university, in a much more flexible curriculum. I have my doubts that Rachael can simultaneously do both and not have either education or skating (or both) suffer. Michelle Kwan started down that path at UCLA but had to cut down on classes, then finally concentrate only on skating and defer continuing her higher education until a later time.

Agafonova has come a long way in just a year. This time last year, she only had a consistent toe and salchow and was just adding the 3Lz to her programs. And now she's a Junior World medalist with a consistent 3Lz+3T! I'm so glad it's getting ratified after she had so many downgrades on her first event this year. And her spins are as lovely as always.

I don't think staying junior is a terrible idea. She's tiny, so it takes her a long time to get across the ice even though she's not slow. She also needs to work on expression. But her jump technique is not bad, aside from her 2A.

bigsisjiejie said:

Anna O: I also thought the messiness was due mostly to nerves. But maybe chuckm is right and there are some underlying technique issues there. Will have to watch some more.

Rachael, college + skating: If Rachael is going into the bio-sciences, it will be a relatively rigid schedule with labs and other stuff. Much less room for flexibility than if one is studying one of the humanities or social sciences. Stanford is no cakewalk either. No aspersions to Alissa and her educational achievements, but while continuing to skate, she went to a much less demanding type of university, in a much more flexible curriculum. I have my doubts that Rachael can simultaneously do both and not have either education or skating (or both) suffer. Michelle Kwan started down that path at UCLA but had to cut down on classes, then finally concentrate only on skating and defer continuing her higher education until a later time.

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I agree with you about Rachael. It won't be easy for her to miss so much class and lab time traveling all over the world for grand prix competitions and such. Granted, she managed to do so well in highschool while training a lot and missing a lot of school but college will be different, a lot of professors don't allow students to miss more than say 3 classes a semester. Alissa took most of her courses online, only took 4 classes a semester (she took classes over the summer most years, took 5 years to graduate I think), and was an international studies and foreign language major so she could study her French and Russian while at competitions, while Rachael will have a tough time doing science work while traveling, as she needs to be in labs. I also don't know where she will train, but she will have a new coach and likely have to travel a distance to train. If anyone can manage school and skating, Rachael can, although I wouldn't be surprised if she was unable to maintain the very high level of skating she is at now.

As for Anna, I think nerves were definitely a factor, but she does have iffy technique on some of her jumps, although it does not appear to be anywhere near as bad as someone like Caroline Zhang's technique. It's good news that she does not flutz or lip, and from what I can tell her 2a is very solid. I know she just got her 3t recently so that may need more work, and 3loop is a tricky jump for most people. For a junior and a young one at that her PCS are pretty high, and she does have the desired body type for a figure skater with her long thin limbs, and judging from her frame I don't think she will be one of the girls who will fill out a lot and really change body types. She has plenty of time to get more polished and I think if she continues to make progress she could become competitive on the European if not the World stage.

oleada said:

Agafonova has come a long way in just a year. This time last year, she only had a consistent toe and salchow and was just adding the 3Lz to her programs. And now she's a Junior World medalist with a consistent 3Lz+3T! I'm so glad it's getting ratified after she had so many downgrades on her first event this year. And her spins are as lovely as always.

I don't think staying junior is a terrible idea. She's tiny, so it takes her a long time to get across the ice even though she's not slow. She also needs to work on expression. But her jump technique is not bad, aside from her 2A.

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I like Polina A, and I actuallly find you saying her technique isn't bad to be a rellief except for that 2A which can hopefully be fixed.. I noticed that her 3lutzs are pretty big for her height with distance, which is a good sign. I'm actually not so sure if she's giong to get that big if she's this tiny now. However if she can keep her jumps and I think if the technique is good and she doesn't grow huge or fill out to much, she may be able too. Growing a bit will maybe help her move accross the ice. Its a good sign that she's not slow.

But I agree about her being better off in Juniors. However, the concern is they do have so many talented kids and so little spots.

I know you said you think Agnes should stay in Juniors, but I really disagree. I think Agnes's skating is ready for Seniors, and I think she would do well there. Mirai Nagasu had nothing to lose by staying in juniors becuase she wasn't age eligible for Worlds. Agnes is age eligibile and I think she has the ability to make the world team. But it will be difficult for her to do so if she's skating the JGP. I think that at Seniors she has the potential to do as well as Wagner-if not Rachael Flatt because her jumps skating stand out.

I agree about it not being a good idea for Agnes's Senior GP debut to be her second international competition. But they could always send her to Senior B events, early in the season for some seasoning and exposure.

I think Agnes at this point will do better in Seniors than Gao and Christina may actually be better off on the JGP this season because her skating is still Juniorish.