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Thread: What happened to Shelepen and Gao?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    But most of Russian girls are not Caucasian! And I don't know any Russian skater who is Caucasian, except maybe 13 y.o. Nikol Gosviani. Elene Gedevanishvilli is Caucasian, but not Polinas or Anna or Irina, etc. It's individual. There are no differences between Russian girls and, for example, American girls
    You are right and that is most likely why asians are dominating the sport of figure skating. People of European descent are taller and heavier by nature which makes skating harder I would assume.

  2. #77
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    Oops, I've never heard about this particular meaning of "Caucasian" term.

  3. #78
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

    If you look at this chart there is significant differences in average height and therefore presumably weight of people depending on where they live. This probably explains why certain countries dominate certain sports.

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    This is just kinda random, but I was wondering if anyone knows of any juniors who have a triple axel? I know Mao's 3a was at it's best when she was 14 and those Russian girls seem so good at 3-3 that I wouldn't be surprised if they could do 3a as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    This is just kinda random, but I was wondering if anyone knows of any juniors who have a triple axel? I know Mao's 3a was at it's best when she was 14 and those Russian girls seem so good at 3-3 that I wouldn't be surprised if they could do 3a as well.
    Mishin mentioned that he is teaching Liza to do 3A, TAT said that Adelina tries it on practices, but I don't know details
    Last edited by Lucky Star; 03-17-2010 at 03:04 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Mishin mentioned that he is teaching Liza to do 3A, TAT said that Adelina tries it on practices, but I don't know details
    Oh wow but they are working on it. That is so intense! Imagine if they do 3-3 and 3a in their JGP programs next year ! Also I read an article saying that Anna is working on a 2a-3lo combination in training, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do a 2a-3lo before but sounds cool !

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    It's one thing to practice 3A and 2a+3Lo, but it's quite another thing to get those jumps ratified in competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It's one thing to practice 3A and 2a+3Lo, but it's quite another thing to get those jumps ratified in competition.
    And nobody denies it!

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Oh wow but they are working on it. That is so intense! Imagine if they do 3-3 and 3a in their JGP programs next year ! Also I read an article saying that Anna is working on a 2a-3lo combination in training, I don't think I've ever seen anyone do a 2a-3lo before but sounds cool !
    Yeah, sounds interesting! 3Lo is easier jump for Anna than 3T, and she really needs 3-3 or 2A-3 next year to compete with Liza, Adelina and Polinas at Nationals so I think it's good for her to try it

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    It's one thing to practice 3A and 2a+3Lo, but it's quite another thing to get those jumps ratified in competition.
    I don't think there will be another girl doing 3A in the next few years. Rachael's been practicing 3A, hasn't she? All these talks about girls practicing 3A is just silly. Kristi, Mirai, Rachael all tried to do it and yet none's put one in competition, let along getting it ratified. I don't think we will see one from the Russian girls.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Mishin mentioned that he is teaching Liza to do 3A, TAT said that Adelina tries it on practices, but I don't know details
    I am sure Mishin knows what he is doing. But, it may be a mistake to teach the kids 3A before they truly master the jump mechanics and 3-3. One reason many are so high on Tuktamysheva is that she has speed and uses it to her advantage for jump. This is not something you can teach. She was born with it. Nonetheless, it requires great technique to get max impact out of it. It takes much longer to perfect the technique and gain consistency out of it. Tuktamysheva may not be up to that level technically.

    One of the most prevalent problems is that people want an access to higher level jumps faster, which very often comes at the expense of "lower" level jumps. 3A simply is too much of a gamble for girls as they most often do not have the physique and legs to make it when they grow up. Tuktamysheva does not look like a type that may stay very petite as she matures.

    3A, when taught incorrectly by just emphasizing the number of revolution/rotation and landing, can hamper basic jump mechanics, as well.

    3A is for an exceptional case like Midori who was built for it in terms of physique and leg power. I just don't see it in Tuktamysheva. Haven't they seen enough of how it can backfire? In the case of Mao Asada?
    Last edited by key65man; 03-17-2010 at 12:39 PM.

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    Yes, I don't think we will see another girl from Russia or from any other country with 3A in the next few years, but not because there are no girls who can potentially do this, they just don't need this. We all saw at the Olympics that Mao had lower scores for 3A-2T in the SP than Yu-Na had for 3Lz-3T. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but girls just don't have any reason to try 3A in competition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    Yes, I don't think we will see another girl from Russia or from any other country with 3A in the next few years, but not because there are no girls who can potentially do this, they just don't need this. We all saw at the Olympics that Mao had lower scores for 3A-2T in the SP than Yu-Na had for 3Lz-3T. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but girls just don't have any reason to try 3A in competition
    To be precise, Mao's 3A is a suspect both in terms of quality and success rate (when correctly accounted for techincal issues). Because they wanted her to have 3A when she was at the age to learn "correct techiniques," they took a short cut on it. The result was that she had 3A which was unsustainable under normal circumstances while she got her jump mechanics completely off. Mao could land it -- without having to worry about correct ones -- in Vancouver because she was physically gifted and determined enough to go through the weight loss. The downside of it? Poor overall jump mechanics/techniques. She happens to be greatly gifted physically to have managed to pull it off in Vancouver. But, the opportunity cost of it has been way too great.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by key65man View Post
    To be precise, Mao's 3A is a suspect both in terms of quality and success rate (when correctly accounted for techincal issues). Because they wanted her to have 3A when she was at the age to learn "correct techiniques," they took a short cut on it. The result was that she had 3A which was unsustainable under normal circumstances while she got her jump mechanics completely off. Mao could land it -- without having to worry about correct ones -- in Vancouver because she was physically gifted and determined enough to go through the weight loss. The downside of it? Poor overall jump mechanics/techniques. She happens to be greatly gifted physically to have managed to pull it off in Vancouver. But, the opportunity cost of it has been way too great.
    I am sorry but aren't these only your assumptions? I don't think it's the 3A itself that is the cause of Mao's jump problems. Her first coach Machiko doesn't teach her students the best techniques. Kanako has a flutz and she doesn't even do the 3A. So Mao's flutz probably is not related to her 3A. Actually, her jumps were much more stable before she started fixing her lutz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I am sorry but aren't these only your assumptions? I don't think it's the 3A itself that is the cause of Mao's jump problems. Her first coach Machiko doesn't teach her students the best techniques. Kanako has a flutz and she doesn't even do the 3A. So Mao's flutz probably is not related to her 3A. Actually, her jumps were much more stable before she started fixing her lutz.
    I did not say 3A was the cause. The cause for Mao's poor jump mechanics/technique is that she did not spend enough time to learn correct techniques. Instead, she "saved" time by learning incorrect techniques and invested the saving on 3A. Kanako's issue is different. She is not as physically gifted as Mao. She uses her speed better than Mao. But, her mechanics are off, which is why she needs a high-kick. Is this correctable? Yes. But, her team may not go for correcting it any time soon because she can win with it right now. Can she in future? Probably not.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by key65man View Post
    I did not say 3A was the cause. The cause for Mao's poor jump mechanics/technique is that she did not spend enough time to learn correct techniques. Instead, she "saved" time by learning incorrect techniques and invested the saving on 3A. Kanako's issue is different. She is not as physically gifted as Mao. She uses her speed better than Mao. But, her mechanics are off, which is why she needs a high-kick. Is this correctable? Yes. But, her team may not go for correcting it any time soon because she can win with it right now. Can she in future? Probably not.
    But this part is your assumption, because we cannot say that for sure. When she was younger, she only did one 3A, so I don't know how it could have been her savior back then especially since it was never 100% consistent. She only started using it to replace other jumps recently and that was after her attempt to fix some of her jumps did not go well. I think the fact that Machiko's students all seemed to have questionable techniques in their jumps can be more attributed to the coach than to her students. Midori was an exception but she had that natural physique that Mao and Kanako do not. Still even then, Midori had a leg wrap.

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