Who will jump quad in the Worlds after Plush has withdrawn? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Who will jump quad in the Worlds after Plush has withdrawn?

seniorita

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
It was sarcasm. I wanted to say it is not only the quad that ends up in serious injuries.

Actually lambiel apart from his hip destroyed also his knees by practicing the spins we all love to watch and applaud. Anything that is practiced more than the norm that anyone else can do so well ends up in injuries. I didn't see anyone wanting Lambiel to stop his spins. And while he has said this season how much pain he felt practicing them so he was skipping them.
 
colleen o'neill

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:disapp:Well, I'm not a surgeon, but I've been a dancer, dance teacher , dance aficionado and avid skating fan for many years.There's no question that the pounding skaters joints receive from their jumps is far worse than that suffered by dancers or gymnasts. The added force that comes from speed and landing on a hard surface has got to be extra punishment.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect athletes not to try to challenge themselves ( they will challenge themselves , no matter what we think , anyway ),but I think it's a good thing that abilities other than jumping are being given greater focus these days.Just think..longer careers for our favourites. Who can object to that? And it's got to be a more rewarding experience for all fans to watch a well rounded skater than a one trick pony.
 
colleen o'neill

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
In regard to Lambiel having pain in his knees during spins, I greatly suspect that part of this may be due to the wear and tear caused by jumps to begin with.
 
I

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Yeah, given that Lambiel was a quad guy too, it's hard to blame just the spins. Hell, I'd argue that Plushenko attempting those crazy combinations (3A-4T) caused more damage than good.

Bradley, Abott, Joubert, Reynolds, and Takahashi will go for the quad. So will Voronov and Fernandez. Amodio might. So eight people. And the quad crowd will make the exact same complaints they always make without really engaging in the debate (and in fairness, the debate generally falls into the category of "Well, that's what I want to see," which means that debate is pointless).
 
B

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I'm sure several men at least will attempt it, most of the ones people listed here. Sure, they might not HAVE to, but some of them probably WANT to. They are competitive people, after all.
 
H

Hanaka

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
jennylovskt said:
Takahashi might again has one in LP. But there is a possibility that he might play safe this time around since he could get the PCS that no one could match in this field.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine Takahashi will play it safe. He seems to be one of those guys who believe that a skater should challenge. I saw his interview on TV right after his FP at the Olys. ( at the time the final result had not been concluded yet ) Asked about the fall on the quad, he answered that if he hadn't attemped a quad at the Olys ,(since it was going to be his last Olys) he would regret it for the rest of his life even if he could win a medal.
 
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janetfan

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Forget the quad - will anyone continue to show us the mighty "finger?" :biggrin:

Will such arrogance be missed - or is the sport better off without it? :think:

Also worth considering is if Joubert is on - will his "pelvic thrust" score higher pcs than Jeremy or Patrick's elegant choreo, bladework and more sophisticated IN?

Is the future of skating in N.American/Asian skill - or Euro theatrics?

The quad is only one jump- and yet we see the CoP still rewarding monster pcs to certain quad jumpers who are ordinary at best in most other skating skills.

I hope a certain judge sent out another bunch of emails reminding judges about the rules and scoring fairly.

Wishing all of the guys good luck - and hope the judging is fair.
 
J

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
janetfan said:
Is the future of skating in N.American/Asian skill - or Euro theatrics?

The quad is only one jump- and yet we see the CoP still rewarding monster pcs to certain quad jumpers who are ordinary at best in most other skating skills.

I hope a certain judge sent out another bunch of emails reminding judges about the rules and scoring fairly.
Click to expand...

Isn't a quad ability a skill, too?:rolleye: Also not many skaters could manage it.

What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Doesn't Brezina have transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad.;) We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

So you think that the Inman's method worked?:laugh:
 
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janetfan

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
jennylovskt said:
Isn't a quad ability a skill, too?:rolleye: Also not many skaters could manage it.

What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Isn't Brezina has transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad.;) We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

So you think that the Inman's method worked?:laugh:
Click to expand...

Yes, a quad is a great skill - and it should get the points it deserves. But it should NOT boost a skater's TR, CH, and IN. This is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP.

Skaters like Jeremy, Dai and Patrick are showing intricate CH and use transitions. Even Evan does this. Plushy and Joubert do not. Lambiel jumps quads but still manages to show real CH and IN.

I hope Inman's message had an effect - because all he did was remind judges to be FAIR.
Sorry - do you prefer bogus marks for elements not done and for cheating the scores?
 
J

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
janetfan said:
Yes, a quad is a great skill - and it should get the points it deserves. But it should NOT boost a skater's TR, CH, and IN. This is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP.

Skaters like Jeremy, Dai and Patrick are showing intricate CH and use transitions. Even Evan does this. Plushy and Joubert do not. Lambiel jumps quads but still manages to show real CH and IN.

I hope Inman's message had an effect - because all he did was remind judges to be FAIR.
Sorry - do you prefer bogus marks for elements not done and for cheating the scores?
Click to expand...

How do you know that the quad boosted TR, CH, and IN, especially CH and IN? I think that Evan got too high, unfair SS, CH, IN, PE compared with Takahashi. That is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP too, also made a mockery of the Olympics in that sense.

What is real CH and IN? Your standard?

Obviously that you think Inman's email helped to shape the result or you won't suggest to have another round of such rediculous, extreme measure.
 
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L

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
jennylovskt said:
Isn't a quad ability a skill, too?:rolleye: Also not many skaters could manage it.

What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Isn't Brezina has transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad.;) We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

So you think that the Inman's method worked?:laugh:
Click to expand...


You've actually brought up a question I've been wanting to ask. Okay, so it's too much to ask to have complicated transitions into a quad. But does that mean a skater must have ordinary or no transitions into every other jump?

Jeremy has gorgeous transition into his triple axel.

I dunno, if it's such a huge deal that a skater wins gold without a quad maybe they should just make it required element. It's not.

Evan practiced his quad but it wasn't consistent enough to put it into his program and he wasn't required to. Neither was Dai but he chose to attempt it anyway. I respect him for that but I also think there are many, many other things to love about Dai's skating, and I would not have been upset if he won the OGM without a quad.

Stephane Lambiel is a gorgeous skater who does a quad. But he can't do a triple axel. If he had skated perfectly and won would people have crucified him for winning an OGM without being able to do a jump that men have been doing for decades?

Maybe the quad should be worth more - to the point which it would basically be "required," at least for a shot at the podium. But then maybe Dai wouldn't even have been on the podium while other, lesser, skaters who did land a quad - or quads - in Vancouver would have medaled. And that wouldn't feel right with me at least.
 
janetfan

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
jennylovskt said:
How do you know that the quad boosted TR, CH, and IN, especially CH and IN? I think that Evan got too high, unfair SS, CH, IN, PE compared with Takahashi. That is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP too, also made a mockery of the Olympics in that sense.

What is real CH and IN? Your standard?

Obviously that you think Inman's email helped to shape the result or you won't suggest to have another round of such rediculous, extreme measure.
Click to expand...

I believe what the Belgian judge who was interviewed here said was true. That good judges would not be influenced but Inman's email.

What you seem to miss - is that Inman sent an email and asked for judges to be fair. What should we do - shoot a judge for such a radical suggestion? For you to be against Inman shows that you approve of cheating for your favorite quad boys. Inman wanted fair scoring - and yet you object :think:

I think back to NHK - the SP when Jeremy and Brian skated clean. Somehow - as if the judges were blind - or knew NOTHING about skating - Joubert got higher pcs than Jeremy.

That is a good example of what Inman was talking about. Don't give certain skaters high marks for mediocre elements. Or high marks for transitions that don't exist. Or for CH that is subpar, or for IN that basically ignores the music.

You seem to disagree with that - but I don't.

Evan has it all - that is why he is Olympic champion. But as the Belgian judge agreed - Evan has the best PE. He is a great competitor. His jumps are not crooked in the air and he has CH from start to finish of his program. Evan won because he had a better team, that understood the CoP the best. Dai did not win because he probably skates for a different reason. I like both and thought either one deserved to win. I did not think the kiss blowing, pelvic thrust skater with no 3F and bad 3Lz's and level 1 steps who ignores the music deserevd more than bronze.

Who we like is subjective. But having fair scoring should always be important.
 
G

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Plushenko having no 3F is worse than the Gold Medal winner not having a quad? LOL.
 
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