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Thread: Who will jump quad in the Worlds after Plush has withdrawn?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    for some reason most judges gave it negative GOE
    Report said it was 2 footed. It look clean to me, even it is slightly touch it with a tip, it has harshly judged.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdnSkateWatcher View Post
    Did I read somewhere that Reynolds has a Quad-triple-triple? He's also landing quad-toe and quad-sal.
    Probably. I'm amazed that for as skinny as he is, he is such a powerful jumper.

  3. #33
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Kevin has a really fast rotation in the air...I think it's more dynamics than power.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 03-22-2010 at 12:03 PM.

  4. #34
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Forget the quad - will anyone continue to show us the mighty "finger?"

    Will such arrogance be missed - or is the sport better off without it?

    Also worth considering is if Joubert is on - will his "pelvic thrust" score higher pcs than Jeremy or Patrick's elegant choreo, bladework and more sophisticated IN?

    Is the future of skating in N.American/Asian skill - or Euro theatrics?

    The quad is only one jump- and yet we see the CoP still rewarding monster pcs to certain quad jumpers who are ordinary at best in most other skating skills.

    I hope a certain judge sent out another bunch of emails reminding judges about the rules and scoring fairly.

    Wishing all of the guys good luck - and hope the judging is fair.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Is the future of skating in N.American/Asian skill - or Euro theatrics?

    The quad is only one jump- and yet we see the CoP still rewarding monster pcs to certain quad jumpers who are ordinary at best in most other skating skills.

    I hope a certain judge sent out another bunch of emails reminding judges about the rules and scoring fairly.
    Isn't a quad ability a skill, too? Also not many skaters could manage it.

    What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Doesn't Brezina have transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad. We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

    So you think that the Inman's method worked?
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 03-22-2010 at 03:29 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    Isn't a quad ability a skill, too? Also not many skaters could manage it.

    What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Isn't Brezina has transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad. We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

    So you think that the Inman's method worked?
    Yes, a quad is a great skill - and it should get the points it deserves. But it should NOT boost a skater's TR, CH, and IN. This is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP.

    Skaters like Jeremy, Dai and Patrick are showing intricate CH and use transitions. Even Evan does this. Plushy and Joubert do not. Lambiel jumps quads but still manages to show real CH and IN.

    I hope Inman's message had an effect - because all he did was remind judges to be FAIR.
    Sorry - do you prefer bogus marks for elements not done and for cheating the scores?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Yes, a quad is a great skill - and it should get the points it deserves. But it should NOT boost a skater's TR, CH, and IN. This is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP.

    Skaters like Jeremy, Dai and Patrick are showing intricate CH and use transitions. Even Evan does this. Plushy and Joubert do not. Lambiel jumps quads but still manages to show real CH and IN.

    I hope Inman's message had an effect - because all he did was remind judges to be FAIR.
    Sorry - do you prefer bogus marks for elements not done and for cheating the scores?
    How do you know that the quad boosted TR, CH, and IN, especially CH and IN? I think that Evan got too high, unfair SS, CH, IN, PE compared with Takahashi. That is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP too, also made a mockery of the Olympics in that sense.

    What is real CH and IN? Your standard?

    Obviously that you think Inman's email helped to shape the result or you won't suggest to have another round of such rediculous, extreme measure.
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 03-22-2010 at 02:09 PM.

  8. #38
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    Isn't a quad ability a skill, too? Also not many skaters could manage it.

    What is this with the regions to separate the skating and skaters? Isn't Johnny Weir lack of transition? Isn't Brezina has transition too? Is transition everything?:sheesh: For your information, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have transition either when he jumps the quad. We'll see what transition Patrick Chan could use next season when he said that he'll put a quad in his program.

    So you think that the Inman's method worked?

    You've actually brought up a question I've been wanting to ask. Okay, so it's too much to ask to have complicated transitions into a quad. But does that mean a skater must have ordinary or no transitions into every other jump?

    Jeremy has gorgeous transition into his triple axel.

    I dunno, if it's such a huge deal that a skater wins gold without a quad maybe they should just make it required element. It's not.

    Evan practiced his quad but it wasn't consistent enough to put it into his program and he wasn't required to. Neither was Dai but he chose to attempt it anyway. I respect him for that but I also think there are many, many other things to love about Dai's skating, and I would not have been upset if he won the OGM without a quad.

    Stephane Lambiel is a gorgeous skater who does a quad. But he can't do a triple axel. If he had skated perfectly and won would people have crucified him for winning an OGM without being able to do a jump that men have been doing for decades?

    Maybe the quad should be worth more - to the point which it would basically be "required," at least for a shot at the podium. But then maybe Dai wouldn't even have been on the podium while other, lesser, skaters who did land a quad - or quads - in Vancouver would have medaled. And that wouldn't feel right with me at least.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    How do you know that the quad boosted TR, CH, and IN, especially CH and IN? I think that Evan got too high, unfair SS, CH, IN, PE compared with Takahashi. That is not only unfair but makes a mockery of the CoP too, also made a mockery of the Olympics in that sense.

    What is real CH and IN? Your standard?

    Obviously that you think Inman's email helped to shape the result or you won't suggest to have another round of such rediculous, extreme measure.
    I believe what the Belgian judge who was interviewed here said was true. That good judges would not be influenced but Inman's email.

    What you seem to miss - is that Inman sent an email and asked for judges to be fair. What should we do - shoot a judge for such a radical suggestion? For you to be against Inman shows that you approve of cheating for your favorite quad boys. Inman wanted fair scoring - and yet you object

    I think back to NHK - the SP when Jeremy and Brian skated clean. Somehow - as if the judges were blind - or knew NOTHING about skating - Joubert got higher pcs than Jeremy.

    That is a good example of what Inman was talking about. Don't give certain skaters high marks for mediocre elements. Or high marks for transitions that don't exist. Or for CH that is subpar, or for IN that basically ignores the music.

    You seem to disagree with that - but I don't.

    Evan has it all - that is why he is Olympic champion. But as the Belgian judge agreed - Evan has the best PE. He is a great competitor. His jumps are not crooked in the air and he has CH from start to finish of his program. Evan won because he had a better team, that understood the CoP the best. Dai did not win because he probably skates for a different reason. I like both and thought either one deserved to win. I did not think the kiss blowing, pelvic thrust skater with no 3F and bad 3Lz's and level 1 steps who ignores the music deserevd more than bronze.

    Who we like is subjective. But having fair scoring should always be important.

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    Plushenko having no 3F is worse than the Gold Medal winner not having a quad? LOL.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Who we like is subjective. But having fair scoring should always be important.
    What do you mean by "fair scoring"?
    And if Plushenko has "bad 3Lz"... Did you see Evan's 3A? Was it good?..
    Was Weir's place fair? Or did Chan deserve 160 points for his FS?...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    What do you mean by "fair scoring"?
    And if Plushenko has "bad 3Lz"... Did you see Evan's 3A? Was it good?..
    Was Weir's place fair? Or did Chan deserve 160 points for his FS?...
    I was not a judge in Vancouver - so my comments were directed in support of striving to have fair judging. Is judging perfect? Probably not - but my point was that it should be the goal to have the best judging possible.

    Evan beat Plushy on TES - which considering how many wonky jumps Plushy had - plus the fact that Evan did one more triple - and has better spins and better steps seems to justify that score.
    I thought Plushy was overmarked again on TR, CH and IN and even SS.

    Despite how Mishin said skating was going backwards without a quad - I could clearly see that Evan was the more modern looking skater. Plushy seemed to be skating in a timewarp and his CH and IN looked like it was from the 90's.

    But despite my opinion - the fact is that if Plushy would have had better execution he would have won because his pcs were still inflated.

  13. #43
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post

    If he had skated perfectly and won would people have crucified him for winning an OGM without being able to do a jump that men have been doing for decades?
    just my opinion but none would have noticed , we would have been too busy partying!
    Actually stephane's skate covers up for any no triple axel he doesnt do, i dont mind because his skate is UP like a balloon in the sky comparing to most skaters.


    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Plushenko having no 3F is worse than the Gold Medal winner not having a quad? LOL.
    Oh pleaaaaze. Yes he has , he did it in Rostelecom. He took it out and put a 2axel in case he had an edge call I guess. The same edge call on flip the current Oly champion got. So do you say Evan has no flip either?
    Last edited by seniorita; 03-22-2010 at 03:46 PM.

  14. #44
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    just my opinion but none would have noticed , we would have been too busy partying!
    Actually stephane's skate covers up for any no triple axel he doesnt do, i dont mind because his skate is UP like a balloon in the sky comparing to most skaters.
    Well, ITA!

    Stephane is one of my all-time faves and I would have been thrilled to see him win even without the 3a. Who cares when he has so much else going for him?

    And I would have been thrilled to see Dai win whether he landed a quad or not and I WAS thrilled that Evan won.

    I do find it exciting when a guy lands a quad but I certainly watch skating for much more than that. The quad, for instance, was only one of the many many reasons why I loved Yagudin. If I cared mostly about the quad, my heart would have been with Tim Goebel at Salt Lake City because he landed three. But Yagudin is all time favorite men's skater and Goebel, though I appreciate him, doesn't make my top 10.

    Who among us thought Goebel was a superior skater than Yags? I bet few.

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    Daisuke, Takahiko, Brian, Kevin Reynolds, Sergei, Javier and Ryan.

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