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Thread: Dai may try a quad flip at World

  1. #1
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Dai may try a quad flip at World

    In Japanese
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000243-sph-spo
    His coach Utako says that he has landed it in Japan (does not say how often though) and that even if he URs and falls as he did at official practices, he would get the same score as 3 Toe.

    I personally find this more like gambling, similar to his quad toe at the Olympics. Is it true that he'd get the same score as 3T? I thought that he got zero for his 4T at the Olympics for URing and falling.

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    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    In Japanese
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000243-sph-spo
    His coach Utako says that he has landed it in Japan (does not say how often though) and that even if he URs and falls as he did at official practices, he would get the same score as 3 Toe.
    It would depend on how badly he URs the quad flip. If it is within the 90 degrees to get it called a quad and he falls he would get Base Vale (11.3) less the -3GOE (4.8) less one more point (1) for the fall deduction which would net him 5.5 points or the same as a clean base value triple flip*. If, however, he under-rotates it more than 90 degrees then it would be called a 4F< and be given the same BV as a triple flip (5.5) less 3 points for the fall, together with a one point fall deduction - he nets 1.5 points for that i.e. the same points as a base value double loop.

    Ant

    * This to me demonstrates perfectly why the quads should not increase in value - even with the 1 point deduction for a fall, you get the same points for falling on a quad as you do for standing up a satisfactory triple. This makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by antmanb; 03-23-2010 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Clarifying some of the language in my post

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    4F Day1 Practice, went 0-3,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G4KQwRBBlo#t=0m07s

    4F Day1 Practice, two foot,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvWOljjp4aw#t=0m50s

    He has been doing 4F for several years now in the off-season at least.
    He is currently 50/50 on which to do (4T or 4F) in the LP. Seems to be getting more height on his Flip than the Toeloop at times.

    PERHAPS the chance of success in his case with either quads are about the same, but when missing he is more likely to step out of a Flip while falling on a toe.


    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    This to me demonstrates perfectly why the quads should not increase in value - even with the 1 point deduction for a fall, you get the same points for falling on a quad as you do for standing up a satisfactory triple. This makes no sense to me.
    ala Jeff Buttle in 2006 Olympics, fully rotating the quad and falling on it. Though instead of a quad pass one is usually limited to doing a 2A, which isn't much of an advantage anyway.
    Last edited by bibi24; 03-23-2010 at 06:39 AM.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibi24 View Post
    He is currently 50/50 on which to do (4T or 4F) in the LP.
    Really? 50/50 in the music run-through?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Really? 50/50 in the music run-through?
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000041-spn-spo

    2nd practice, two foot flip,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvWOljjp4aw#t=0m50s
    Last edited by bibi24; 03-23-2010 at 06:30 AM.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Oh, I thought that he's landing Flip and Toe 50/50 in music run-through. But according to your link, now I understand that he's deciding which jump he'd do in LP, Toe or Flip. He feels 50/50 between these two jumps and has not decided which one over the other.
    According to your link, he tried three times yesterday and failed on all. He tried seven times today and had two-footed landing(s) on one/some of them.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    It would depend on how badly he URs the quad flip. If it is within the 90 degrees to get it called a quad and he falls he would get Base Vale (11.3) less the -3GOE (4.8) less one more point (1) for the fall deduction which would net him 5.5 points or the same as a clean base value triple flip*. If, however, he under-rotates it more than 90 degrees then it would be called a 4F< and be given the same BV as a triple flip (5.5) less 3 points for the fall, together with a one point fall deduction - he nets 1.5 points for that i.e. the same points as a base value double loop.

    Ant

    * This to me demonstrates perfectly why the quads should not increase in value - even with the 1 point deduction for a fall, you get the same points for falling on a quad as you do for standing up a satisfactory triple. This makes no sense to me.
    An easy solution for this is to factor the negative GOE in such a manner that falling on a quad would score decently lower than standing up a satisfactory triple.

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    Why not go for the 4A and get credit for a 3A if he underrotates? lol

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    Because he'd likely fall and UR it, which means he'd lose a ridiculous amouont of points.

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    I really dig Dai now. This guy has his own perspective and, dare I say, philosophy. His may be impractical. Nonetheless, I can respect it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Because he'd likely fall and UR it, which means he'd lose a ridiculous amouont of points.
    I think (s)he was joking.

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    Custom Title MikiAndoFan#1's Avatar
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    I think trying a 4F in competition is too risky.



    I hope he lands it, though!


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    Quote Originally Posted by key65man View Post
    I really dig Dai now. This guy has his own perspective and, dare I say, philosophy. His may be impractical. Nonetheless, I can respect it.
    Maybe it can be compared to Asada's sticking to 3A.
    Personally I wish he would change his mind because I really enjoy the 'presentation' part of his programs. Of course he also has great technique and that's what makes him a good competitor, but I hope to see his clean, flawless LP at Worlds rather than a technically more challenging one. He didn't land a 4T throughout this season, and it has not been long since he recovered from injury, a very severe one, so why try 4F now? :$
    If he still goes for it, oh well, I hope he could nail it, win the gold and make BFF with Plushenko.
    Last edited by breeze; 03-23-2010 at 10:42 AM.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Mao's 3a has sounded far more consistent than Dai's quad this season. AFAIK from practice reports, his quad consistency this season sounds similar to Miki's quad during the last several years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by breeze View Post
    Maybe it can be compared to Asada's sticking to 3A.
    Personally I wish he would change his mind because I really enjoy the 'presentation' part of his programs. Of course he also has great technique and that's what makes him a good competitor, but I hope to see his clean, flawless LP at Worlds rather than a technically more challenging one. He didn't land a 4T throughout this season, and it has not been long since he recovered from injury, a very severe one, so why try 4F now? :$
    If he still goes for it, oh well, I hope he could nail it, win the gold and make BFF with Plushenko.
    Though looks similar, I disagree that what Dai tries to do is same as what Mao did. Mao stuck with 3A because she had no choice in order to beat Yuna. She was not going to do it with flutz, odd flip, loop, and toe loop. Her 3-3 was subject to downgrade. Therefore, 3A was a "practical" choice for Mao if she wanted to win the gold.

    For Dai, he can win the worlds without a quad right now. But, he plans to do it anyway (which also differentiates him from Plushenko who had no choice but landing quads to win the gold).

    Maybe, it is because he wants to prove something to himself or to his people or a bit of both. To me, it seems he is trying to something meaningful in the way he sees it meaningful.

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