Defending Tarasova | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Defending Tarasova

Ren

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I read somewhere that Tarasova had wanted Mao to get a technical coach (perhaps to supervise the jump/tech side of things)? Maybe she did after CoR, I'm not sure. But I do agree with Toby1Dawg's observation about Tat's successful singles skaters. I think she's mainly a choreographer.
 

SerpentineSteps

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Hey smart guy, there is no such rule that replies have to agree with the original post. DUH

There's a difference between disagreeing with an opinion posited in the post and disregarding factual claims made in it (i.e. that Asada chose them and therefore that Tarasova can't really be blamed). If there's a dispute as to the validity of the claim, that's one thing, but that's clearly not what you were doing in the post...
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Thank you! I was always sick of seeing people heep blame on TAT, who happens to be one of my favorite choreographers. People complain about the choreography of Bells, but TAT also choreographed Sasha's Malaguena, Mao's Ladies in Lavender, Kulik's Rhapsody In Blue and most of Yags programs. She is capable of regal masterpieces, tailored to each skater, which leads me to think Mao's input clearly had an effect. Mao said she wanted to skate to heavier, stronger music because it would empower her. TAT complied. It's not as if TAT was insistent on Mao skating to heavy music -- her first piece for Mao was Ladies in Lavender, my absolute favorite of Mao's programs. I know TAT is to blame too, but does she really deserve the abuse she gets from so many of Mao's fans? Mao should've been smarter. It's not some petty talent she's nurturing.

The thing about TAT is that she focuses on choregraphy, artistic development and tapping into that "champion" mindset. All of her top students came to her with the technical elements. Mao didn't. That's the source of all ill, in my opinion. When Mao saw her jumps deteriorating, she should've received technical help, but she didn't. I really don't get why.

Well, TAT was the also the one who first suggested the 3A layout and the one who did the choreography. Mao followed all of her instructions on that .

No, I think it was Mao. I saw it on some Japanese program. In 08-09, TAT had Mao start the season with one 3A at TEB. After that, while practicing in Moscow, Mao asked to have another 3A included. It was her idea to start with -- she wanted to achieve historical acclaim and to challenge herself technically after winning her world title. TAT saw that Mao was jumping those 3As very well during NHK Trophy practices and thus gave the OK sign.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Re: Mao's mom, I once read an interview article with her (a magazine called, Aera). She almost never appears in the media. Very few ppl have ever seen her face in the media. In that interview as well, no photos of hers, just an interview. But it was interesting.

Both Mao's mom and dad lost their parents relatively early so that they wanted to have a warm family. After Mai and Mao started skating, she has been a very dedicated parent for their skating. The coach Machiko Yamada told her that Mao is talented and Mom drove her back and forth between the rink, school, and home.

After Mao entered the Univ, they bought a new apartment near the univ rink so that they can save time. Mom drove Mao everyday to the rink and she was there to watch her practice. Mom really trusted TAT despite all the opinions saying that they should reconsider the programs and the coaching situation.

Now that Mao is reaching adulthood, she wants to retire from the role as a skating Mom.

I think that she has acted like a regular skating Mom at Ms. Machiko Yamada's. Machiko Yamada is known for allowing parents' involvement. Machiko says it's easier of corse to shut them off, but she believes that getting attention is important for the skater's development and skating Moms can be helpful because they give their exclusive attention to their kids. So skating Moms watch their kids practice beside the rink everyday and give them "advice". Mao's Mom played that role longer than usual, but it may be understandable with the unusual media attention and pressures on Mao.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
I agree with jBroxton7001. I don't think there's any need to blame Tat or Mao for winning the silver medal!

Also, totally off topic, but I was just watching a YouTube clip of Mao done by a fan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1AeYAIoK1Y

and at 3:00, there is a photo of the Olympic podium that shows all three winners from top to bottom. The heights of Yuna and Mao often quoted is that Mao is 163-cm and Yuna is 164-cm. But in this photo, Mao is clearly taller than Yuna. I think there was some mention about this earlier in another thread, and some poster dismissed it as Yuna having different type of skates from Mao, but if you look at all previous podium photos, Yuna always stood slightly taller than Mao, and neither Yuna nor Mao can have changed their skates, so that explanation doesn't work.

Is it possible that Mao is still growing!? That would explain alot regarding Mao's jump issues this season.

By 19, she shouldn't be growing anymore...(generally speaking)

IIRC, I think Yuna got new left boot after Skate America and maybe got new boots for the Oly.

I'm not sure if they were unmatched or not, but it's not like she's never skated in unmatched boots before. (her sr debut season)
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Thank you! I was always sick of seeing people heep blame on TAT, who happens to be one of my favorite choreographers. People complain about the choreography of Bells, but TAT also choreographed Sasha's Malaguena, Mao's Ladies in Lavender, Kulik's Rhapsody In Blue and most of Yags programs. She is capable of regal masterpieces, tailored to each skater, which leads me to think Mao's input clearly had an effect. Mao said she wanted to skate to heavier, stronger music because it would empower her. TAT complied. It's not as if TAT was insistent on Mao skating to heavy music -- her first piece for Mao was Ladies in Lavender, my absolute favorite of Mao's programs. I know TAT is to blame too, but does she really deserve the abuse she gets from so many of Mao's fans? Mao should've been smarter. It's not some petty talent she's nurturing.

The thing about TAT is that she focuses on choregraphy, artistic development and tapping into that "champion" mindset. All of her top students came to her with the technical elements. Mao didn't. That's the source of all ill, in my opinion. When Mao saw her jumps deteriorating, she should've received technical help, but she didn't. I really don't get why.



No, I think it was Mao. I saw it on some Japanese program. In 08-09, TAT had Mao start the season with one 3A at TEB. After that, while practicing in Moscow, Mao asked to have another 3A included. It was her idea to start with -- she wanted to achieve historical acclaim and to challenge herself technically after winning her world title. TAT saw that Mao was jumping those 3As very well during NHK Trophy practices and thus gave the OK sign.

The 2 3A in LP was first thought up by TAT. She said this in an interview I read during last season (2008-2009). Here's the link to the article http://www.figureskatingmystery.com/2009/02/tarasova-time.html

In that article, she specifically said she suggested the 2 3A in the LP. TAT truly believed the 3A strategy will bring Mao the gold, and it is not surprising since she was used to coaching champions with big jumps. Actually, I don't think Shizuka was that sound technically because she tended to UR her jumps a lot but the rules were looser back then, so she was not penalized as much.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
They just didn't fit with each other. No blame should go around. It's not a blame situation thing.
 

hellcat

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
By 19, she shouldn't be growing anymore...(generally speaking)

IIRC, I think Yuna got new left boot after Skate America and maybe got new boots for the Oly.

I'm not sure if they were unmatched or not, but it's not like she's never skated in unmatched boots before. (her sr debut season)


I can NOT trust this youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1AeYAIoK1Y) - I'm not sure why they would do that though. I have watched and recorded NBC ceremony. I have downloaded SBS version of podium as well.

Here's the snap shot and thumbs that may tell you otherwise:

nbc 1

nbc 2


sbs 1

sbs thumbs
 
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ryoko

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Wow, so you think it's mostly Mao's fault? Don't you think as a coach Tat should bear sizable chunk of the blame? Not that giving her best performance ever at the Olympics (point wise) and winning the OSM is a bad. It really really good, actually. If the situation was really untenable, shouldn't Tat have gotten out of the situation a long time ago saying that I cannot work like this?



But doesn't it also apply to Mao? Couldn't she have said the same thing? She is 19 years old and it is ultimately her program. If she really didn't like the costume or 3 3A layout she could have stepped up and say "nope, this ain't working" It just didn't work between them and I don't think all that TAT misleading Mao is true. They are equally responsible.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
The 2 3A in LP was first thought up by TAT. She said this in an interview I read during last season (2008-2009). Here's the link to the article http://www.figureskatingmystery.com/2009/02/tarasova-time.html

In that article, she specifically said she suggested the 2 3A in the LP. TAT truly believed the 3A strategy will bring Mao the gold, and it is not surprising since she was used to coaching champions with big jumps. Actually, I don't think Shizuka was that sound technically because she tended to UR her jumps a lot but the rules were looser back then, so she was not penalized as much.

Ohh OK I never knew that.:p Sorry. The Japanese program left me under the impression that it was Mao's idea all along, and that TAT didn't think it was a good idea. I thought Shiz + TAT was a bad combination as well. I was thinking more on the lines of Kulik and Yags. By "her top students" I actually meant students who were able to shine with her spit and polish.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:think: Tarasova's skaters almost always have terrible costumes, so I think that's definitely one problem that can be laid at her door. Mao's costumes were fine when she was with Artunian. So was the choice of music and choreography.

The original post sounds like "Tat should be credited with any and all good results, but never blamed for any bad ones." That's not the way the world works.
 
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let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Mao is so narrow-minded, like a typical Japanese female. She wants to live only in Japan. She is so scared to live overseas. She has to learn the foreign language. No way! She will stay at home and will see her coach only few weeks a year. Does this girl really believe she will ever win anything with such mentality?
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Mao is so narrow-minded, like a typical Japanese female. She wants to live only in Japan. She is so scared to live overseas. She has to learn the foreign language. No way! She will stay at home and will see her coach only few weeks a year. Does this girl really believe she will ever win anything with such mentality?

Olympic Silver medal ain't too shabby.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
In the case of Tarasova, she is not to blame for everything that has gone wrong for Mao. But she's certainly to blame for those awful programs. (In Arakawa's case, the part time relationship with Tatiana didn't work to well either). This doesn't mean though that Tarasova isn't a good coach or choregraphy, but this year her choregraphy has not been that great. (Accept for Leonova's short maybe). But I agree that Tarasova's best students come to her with the great jumps in place. Its a lot easier to take a student with great technique like Yagudin and polish him up. In many ways Yu-na fit the profile of the students that Tarasova is most successful with than Mao did.
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Mao is so narrow-minded, like a typical Japanese female. She wants to live only in Japan. She is so scared to live overseas. She has to learn the foreign language. No way! She will stay at home and will see her coach only few weeks a year. Does this girl really believe she will ever win anything with such mentality?

Yes, but why do you define a typical Japanese female like that? Take Miki for example, who has decided to train abroad.
 
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