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Thread: Trophee Lalique CD [SPOILER]

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Trophee Lalique CD [SPOILER]

    Hey, guys! I don't post often, but since no one has these results here, I'm going to post the CD results:


    1 Albena DENKOVA / Maxim STAVISKI BUL 39.83 23.80 16.03 7.85 8.05 8.30 0.00 #10

    2 Marie-France DUBREUIL / Patrice LAUZON CAN 36.47 21.86 14.61 7.20 7.35 7.45 0.00 #2

    3 Isabelle DELOBEL / Olivier SCHOENFELDER FRA 36.45 21.60 14.85 7.40 7.40 7.50 0.00 #5

    4 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 34.61 20.56 14.05 6.95 7.20 7.00 0.00 #1

    5 Svetlana KULIKOVA / Vitali NOVIKOV RUS 30.91 19.30 11.61 5.65 5.95 5.95 0.00 #9

    6 Roxane PETETIN / Mathieu JOST FRA 29.15 18.70 10.45 5.15 5.30 5.30 0.00 #4

    7 Kristin FRASER / Igor LUKANIN AZE 28.88 18.08 10.80 5.25 5.60 5.50 0.00 #3

    8 Mariana KOZLOVA / Sergei BARANOV UKR 27.13 17.82 9.31 4.65 4.55 4.75 0.00 #7

    9 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabien BOURZAT FRA 26.64 17.24 9.40 4.70 4.70 4.70 0.00 #6

    10 Anastasia GREBENKINA / Vazgen AZROJAN ARM 26.40 17.74 8.66 4.20 4.45 4.45 0.00 #8

    11 Alessia AURELI / Andrea VATURI ITA 24.79 16.86 7.93 3.95 4.00 3.95 0.00 #11

    I'm :( for B/A, but this is their non-scoring event. The reports say that they didn't have their usual speed and looked tentative. Probably nerves from winning Skate America. Their OD is fabulous and their FD is tecnically strong (whatever people think about the music issue). They beat Del/Shoes handily in the FD at SA and were very close in the OD (B/A had one mistake in their last lift). Go Tanith and Ben!!!

    Also, Looks like they are definitely scoring lower now than at Skate America and Skate Canada...kind of makes everything strange though...

    Edited to add: start orders are up for the OD at the ISU site.

    Lucy
    Last edited by IceCastles1814; 11-13-2003 at 04:50 PM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I'm waiting to see the individual scores here...
    I wonder how much they varied across the judges.
    Del&S are of course French and D&L train in France.
    The one thing I can say about the COP so far is that it
    looks like the hometown judge is one of the 'randomly?' picked ones because all 3 events have definitely given the home town crew as favorable a placing as could be stretched to the performance (JMO) although some of this effect is that everyone has been skating better at home so far--NOT a given. Look at Joubert at last year's Lalique.
    dpp

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    Has anyone noticed that there are no judges names listed under OFFICIALS, as they were at the previous 3 events? The only names shown are the technical committee.

    Are things now so secret that we're not even allowed to know who the judges are?

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    I noticed that too DPP

    I was thinking about that fact when I looked at the detailed scores from the LPs and FD at SA and SC. It's kind of scary, because there are the judges that score sometimes as much as 3 points below or above the average score, so if a skater or team gets that judge in the 5 that count, well, it can be kind of misleading as to the overall quality of the skate. It seemed a particular issue when D&L finished above C&S at Skate Canada. But then, with COP it's about amassing points for the difficulty and quality of each element, so a mistake or two may not hurt if you have an overall difficult program than your closest competitors. I kind of agree about homefield advantage or even a scoring event advantage, with D/L and Del/Shoes trying to get into the GPF, while this is B&A's non-scoring event. I will be interested in the detailed scores as well.

    Lucy

    Edited to add: It seems as though the ISU is going out of it's way to absolve these judges from accountability to anyone but them, doesn't it?
    Last edited by IceCastles1814; 11-13-2003 at 07:55 PM.

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    It's kind of scary, because there are the judges that score sometimes as much as 3 points below or above the average score, so if a skater or team gets that judge in the 5 that count, well, it can be kind of misleading as to the overall quality of the skate
    Well, not really. Since they use "trimmed mean", the score that is significantly below or above average would be trimmed out.

    As to the home field advantage... I agree that the marks support this, but I'm not yet willing to declare it a consipracy.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I don't think conspiracy is a word I would use on this. There has always been a home field advantage in the GP circuit. For some reason, it has seemed more evident this year. I think I would leave it at that. It could be coincidence, but it does make me wonder.

    I was at Skate America, and would say that Sasha and Jenny were indeed the class of the field there. And that Weiss won sort of by default and being less dreadful than others. B&A got the edge over Del&S and the Grushgons and that was kind of close-not I wuz robbed but surely best result possible when it could have gone the other way. And Amber certainly got the benefit of the doubt.

    Than watching Skate Canada on TV, I was very worried by the low placing of C&S. Granted not everyone likes a Klown program, but still they probably deserved better in my book. dpp
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-13-2003 at 10:18 PM.

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    Originally posted by Ptichka
    Well, not really. Since they use "trimmed mean", the score that is significantly below or above average would be trimmed out.

    As to the home field advantage... I agree that the marks support this, but I'm not yet willing to declare it a consipracy.
    Thanks for explaining the trimmed mean, I remember hearing about that.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally posted byDORISPULASKII was at Skate America, and would say that Sasha and Jenny were indeed the class of the field there. And that Weiss won sort of by default and being less dreadful than others. B&A got the edge over Del&S and the Grushgons and that was kind of close-not I wuz robbed but surely best result possible when it could have gone the other way. And Amber certainly got the benefit of the doubt.
    DPP, At SA, did it seem to you that the Grushgons' FD was unevenly distributed with the difficulty on her and him not doing much more than lifting and turning her? That's the way it seemed on T.V. to me. Del&Shoes had a good FD and I think they should have been in 2nd behind B&A. The scores were very close between the GRushgons and Del/Schoes, but the latter had the edge,IMO, even with the mistake by him in the twizzle section. B&A had a couple of errors it looked like (a slight stumble in circular fw and an awkward lift at the end), but their footwork was the most difficult and they both were evenly matched in their workload (So were Del/Shoes). ITA with your description of the ladies and men.

    As for SC, again, As I understand from their elements, D/L had a more difficult program than C&S, even with the fall? Were D/L held up? I think it's arguable. It's something to think about though. It seems like the clown controversy may be missing the point that C&S FD may not be as difficult as it could or should be. Then there's the controversy with the team itself, which I'm not sure I really get...ice dancing is too dramatic for its own good, I think. I like to watch it, but analyzing it is a headache,lol.

    Lucy

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The scores were very close between the GRushgons and Del/Schoes, but the latter had the edge,IMO, even with the mistake by him in the twizzle section. B&A had a couple of errors it looked like (a slight stumble in circular fw and an awkward lift at the end), but their footwork was the most difficult and they both were evenly matched in their workload (So were Del/Shoes).
    This is getting way long Ice Castles so you may be sorry you asked!

    This is tricky, because IMO it requires a much more educated eye to watch ice dance than the other 3 disciplines and comment intelligently. I generally feel I have something to say about CD's and OD's but always feel on more questionable ground commenting about FD's. So I am going to start from the other end.

    And I am wishing that we got to SA early enough to see B&A vs the DelSchoes compulsory dance. But I did see the OD's. B&A were much more on rhythm doing Jitterbug/Blues/Swing (the blues being Why Don't you Do Right Like Some Other Men Do. I am usually not a B&A fan and I really liked this OD. Good speed and work evenly distributed; always a strength of this team. They were really pushing it out. Wow.

    The DelSchoes were again as they were at world's. Having a hard time getting the concept of a rhythm and dealing with it by having not very rhythm driven stuff. Which is darn hard to do in a boogie. They were supposed to be doing a Boogie/Blues/Boogie. The transition between blues and boogie was nicely done. The whole thing, including the costumes, did not say 40's/50's, which is what the guidelines are supposed to be. The Blues was Cry Me a River.

    The Grushgons were better with a really nice dance spin, and good speed on the diagonal F/w, but she fell in a S/L footwork sequence so of course they got hammered. Worse, before she fell, she was fighting it, so really the whole S/L was a problem.
    They used Summertime for the blues, a risky choice because it always reminds the older set (me included) of T&D's Summertime OSP which was superb.

    The audience definitely was going Wha' happened when the Del Schoes beat B&A in the OD. On looking up the scores later, it was clear that what made the difference was the fact that the coach of Del/Schoes (and is that the same coach Dub/Lau's have?) had gotten a S/L Fw that got a higher rating from the caller than the others. Same as Dub/Lau at SC. I believe that French coach is probably the only one out there that actually is working to the dance COP rules very well yet. (And kudoes to her for it). The other coaches will just have to catch up.

    In the free dance the Del Schoes had that sappy Merlin thing going with the puffy white and purple costumes that did not set off their lines as well as they could(a mistake there. Their lines are good. No need to obscure them.) The music is not very danceable, which conceals their difficulty staying on rhythm, but also was nearly to the point of being a deduction, IMO. They had a nice rotational lift, AFAIR, and a slip in the S/L F/w. I thought the F/w was not up to that in their OD and I guess the caller did too. Nobody got very excited about this program.

    The Grushgons dance. The Del Schoes skate fast but don't dance. Grushgons hit the beats well, as do B&A. Her costume looked odd until it was in motion and then it worked. The audience including me was having trouble with the concept of the dance but in general liked it. One S/L was slow and marchy but they were doing a death thing called Escape from Hanging so that would have been part of the point. I am still not sure how hanging comes into this program. This was a drama program and from that point of view I think it worked.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-14-2003 at 07:14 AM.

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    The judges are now listed under "Officials" on the Lalique results page.

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    Thumbs up Thanks DPP!

    I agree that it takes a different and more detailed eye to look at ice dancing. What you are saying does put it more into a perspective. ITA, it must be that higher element that is helping the Del/Shoes in the OD from the the results at Lalique. They and D&L are not very much ahead of B/A. Very interesting.

    Lucy

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    Thanks for this spirited thread, IceCastles and Doris. This is the first season that I have become really interested in this discipline. In tha past, many of the competitions seemed more like exhibitions, where everybody already knew what order the teams would be placed. This year it is very exciting, with teams moving up and down with each of the three components.

    I don't know whether to credit the CoP, or maybe it's just that nobody is dominating the scene this year and so victories and championships are up for grabs.

    Mathman

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Mathman, probably a little of both--with L&A and B&K retiring, plus A/P, D&V and FP/M retiring the previous year, there are just lots of open spots in ice dance, more than I ever remembered. I have always really, really liked dance and glad that this year there is some excitement and changes in placings between the 3 phases. That's Great.

    Plus L&T will skate at Nationals. Even though I fear B &A will destroy them, I love watching their skating.

    Doris

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    I thought L & T weren't skating together any more. Sure haven't heard anything for months. Glad to hear they're still together.

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