Pairs Long Program

[blue_idealist]

Kaw / Smi getting the bronze over Muk / Tra was a joke. Why they have to keep bumping them up, just because Moskvine has more "love" from the russian federation than Vasiliev ? Because I cannot find any other rational reason. I was simply disgusted.

Not that it's fair, but maybe K&S are being bumped up because M&T might be breaking up, so the fed. feels it's a waste of time to promote them?

Oh, and re: an earlier poster, I did mean that the Zhangs were staying, not retiring.

[SamuraiKike]

If I remember correctly, Larionov said that he took a cold pill or something like that without talking to his coach/doctor/whoever, and it had some chemical in it that was on the banned list. Must feel horrible to get suspended for something like that if it's the truth.

Bazarova herself must have had pretty good faith in him and his skills not lessening, since she could have chosen to break the partnership during the suspension in order to partner with someone else and gain more competition experience. Which makes me appreciate their placement here at these Worlds more, that they did so well not only not having competed in a long time, but alsonever having anything close to a full senior season before the suspension.

Well that's the excuse that every athlete makes when they get suspended for banned sunstances. Berezhnaya did the same when she got suspended, for instance. Not saying that it isn't true, but I will take that with a huge grain of salt.

I agree about Bazarova sticking with him, though. She really gambled and Im glad things are working out for them.

[SamuraiKike]

When the teams do similar technical elements than things like transitions should matter. Its not like Pang and Tong were doing throw quad sals are anything like that. Of the top four, P/T actually have the weakest skating skills, and so for them to get 9.00s especially over the German team is ridiculous.

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P&T got 8.8 for SS and beat the germans for only 0.15 in that component. And that's your own view on the skating skills of the top 4 teams, for me the weakest in that department should bd K&S, but you dont really expect everyone of the nine judges to mark every component exactly how you rank the teams dont you?? It could have gone either way but it's all within an acceptable range .

[bekalc]

P&T got 8.8 for SS and beat the germans for only 0.15 in that component. And that's your own view on the skating skills of the top 4 teams, for me the weakest in that department should bd K&S, but you dont really expect everyone of the nine judges to mark every component exactly how you rank the teams dont you?? It could have gone either way but it's all within an acceptable range .

Then tell me are P/T faster than S/S? Do they have better ice coverage? What about better edges? While I like the guy on that team, Pang's posture and extension is no where near as good as Aliona's. And while Aliona is better than Robin, Robin isn't exactly weak in terms of line or posture. Now you can think Aliona and Robin's free is about bland here, but in terms of basics, Aliona and Robin as a team ARE better than Pang and Tong.

And K/S are better than Pang and Tong in terms of basics too. I don't care for them but when it comes to deep edges and things like that K/S are better. Now in terms of packaging I agree that I hate K/S's program.

[piano18]

Robin's weaker than Aliona.

[FlattFan]

Two falls are worse than doubling jumps and the unison problem. And K/S long program is awful. Skaters shouldn't get 130 with the kind of errors K/S had in the long.

Are they? Unison problem = skating skill problem. Doubling jumps = backing down from difficulty. One team did a throw quad and went for everything. One team backed down the difficult elements not once, but TWICE. I'm sorry you feel that way because S/S should be bronze or even 4th place. Maria Mukhortova and Maxim should get the bronze. PCS saved them in the SP and the LP.

[SamuraiKike]

Then tell me are P/T faster than S/S? Do they have better ice coverage? What about better edges? While I like the guy on that team, Pang's posture and extension is no where near as good as Aliona's. And while Aliona is better than Robin, Robin isn't exactly weak in terms of line or posture. Now you can think Aliona and Robin's free is about bland here, but in terms of basics, Aliona and Robin as a team ARE better than Pang and Tong.

And K/S are better than Pang and Tong in terms of basics too. I don't care for them but when it comes to deep edges and things like that K/S are better. Now in terms of packaging I agree that I hate K/S's program.

*sighs* you are missing the whole point here. Like I said in a previous post, SS has better skills , I agree with you there, and If I were judging I would have given higher marks there, But Im not expecting every person in the world to feel the same, FS is not a written in stone art/sport aprrecciation and there's definetly a case for PT being higher (Tong is the better skater of the four IMO), so a small margin like 0.15 points is hardly ridiculous as you pointed.

By the way, last time I checked posture and extention are nowhere in the criteria set for the marking of the SS component.

[piano18]

While I like the guy on that team, Pang's posture and extension is no where near as good as Aliona's.
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well DUH of course not since when are posture and extension and limbs included in the skating skills criterion?

[bekalc]

Are they? Unison problem = skating skill problem. Doubling jumps = backing down from difficulty. One team did a throw quad and went for everything. One team backed down the difficult elements not once, but TWICE. I'm sorry you feel that way because S/S should be bronze or even 4th place. Maria Mukhortova and Maxim should get the bronze. PCS saved them in the SP and the LP.

I'm wondering Flatt if you actually watched the long program because from what I saw Maria and Maxim had two major mistakes in their long program. Maria two footed the first jump in her sequence and then SINGLED the second jump. Last time I checked a single is a lot worse than a double jump. (Don't you agree?) I mean seriously it was what a double toe that Maria couldn't do. And then of course Maria and Maxim had a fall too. And well of course S/S had a lot more difficult choregraphy than M/T.

And K/S had TWO falls in their program. They couldn't manage to land a single throw in their program.

well DUH of course not since when are posture and extension and limbs included in the skating skills criterion?

Well the USFSA talked about having good skating skills along with posture in their note about skating skills. But carriage is absolutely included in Performance and Execution.

[FlattFan]

I'm wondering Flatt if you actually watched the long program because from what I saw Maria and Maxim had two major mistakes in their long program. Maria two footed the first jump in her sequence and then SINGLED the second jump. Last time I checked a single is a lot worse than a double jump. (Don't you agree?) I mean seriously it was what a double toe that Maria couldn't do. And then of course Maria and Maxim had a fall too. And well of course S/S had a lot more difficult choregraphy than M/T.

And K/S had TWO falls in their program. They couldn't manage to land a single throw in their program.

Maria/Maxim had 2 major mistakes in their LP, that's true. But their SP was superior to S/S SP. You could make a case for them to be in 3rd place. I don't recall saying Maria/Maxim was clean in the LP, so what exactly are you talking about here?

[piano18]

Well the USFSA talked about having good skating skills along with posture in their note about skating skills. But carriage is absolutely included in Performance and Execution.

obviously..

[Audrey19]

Are they? Unison problem = skating skill problem. Doubling jumps = backing down from difficulty. One team did a throw quad and went for everything. One team backed down the difficult elements not once, but TWICE. I'm sorry you feel that way because S/S should be bronze or even 4th place. Maria Mukhortova and Maxim should get the bronze. PCS saved them in the SP and the LP.

Right, and figure skating is a sport is only about jumps. Beauty, skating skills, complex choreography, innovation, artistry, spins, unison, chemistry, lifts, transitions or something like a wow-factor don't matter at all in pairs skating.
K/S medalling is ridiculous, it puts figure skating to shame.
Did you realize the reaction of the audience to Aliona & Robin's free skate? The performance was magical and the audience started to clap and cheer very loudly a few seconds before their program ended, and their applause was the highest of all the teams by far, even at the medal ceremony compared to Pang & Tong. no way the diference between them and K&S was only one point.
Shame on you, judges!

[FlattFan]

Right, and figure skating is a sport is only about jumps. Beauty, skating skills, complex choreography, innovation, artistry, spins, unison, chemistry, lifts, transitions or something like a wow-factor don't matter at all in pairs skating.
K/S medalling is ridiculous, it puts figure skating to shame.
Did you realize the reaction of the audience to Aliona & Robin's free skate? The performance was magical and the audience started to clap and cheer very loudly a few seconds before their program ended, and their applause was the highest of all the teams by far, even at the medal ceremony compared to Pang & Tong. no way the diference between them and K&S was only one point.
Shame on you, judges!

What do you expect the difference between them and K/S to be when their SP was terrible, slow, emotionally disjointed, couldn't deliver the complex choreography, no innovation, no unison, no wow-factor?

[bekalc]

What do you expect the difference between them and K/S to be when their SP was terrible, slow, emotionally disjointed, couldn't deliver the complex choreography, no innovation, no unison, no wow-factor?

And K/S's long program was terrible. As for S/S's short program having no innovation-I have to ask you-really?.. Because I have to disagree. I think its by far the most innovative short this season, to the point of being controversial. Yes they messed up two elements and weren't as fast as they normally were. But they definetly deserved at least silver considering how horrible K/S's long program was and how not so great M/T's long was as well.

Lack of unison on spins is ONE unison element. Its the only area where at times S/S lack. A nd the winners also have problems with unison on their spins too.

[FlattFan]

And K/S's long program was terrible. As for S/S's short program having no innovation-I have to ask you-really?.. Because I have to disagree. I think its by far the most innovative short this season, to the point of being controversial. Yes they messed up two elements and weren't as fast as they normally were. But they definetly deserved at least silver considering how horrible K/S's long program was and how not so great M/T's long was as well.

Lack of unison on spins is ONE unison element. Its the only area where at times S/S lack. A nd the winners also have problems with unison on their spins too.

Yes, I said no innovation. They skated to "send in the clowns" and they were so literal with their SP. Commentators said it at one point or another since the GP series earlier in the season. Their SP was as flat as the Zhangs, even without factoring the 2 glaring mistakes.
I would think a controversial program would be the OD from Domnina and Shabalin. I wish S/S SP is a bit controversial, because it is so contrived and expected. mime act, clown tears? Where is the innovation in that?
I was responding to the poster who thought it's ridiculous that S/S only beat K/S by 1 point. Well, they screwed up their SP pretty badly and weren't clean in their LP. The result could tip the other way if the judges give K/S the kind of PCS S/S get.