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Thread: Pairs Long Program

  1. #106
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    What an amazing season for P/T! Congrats. They've been underrated for so long, and it's great to see them getting the recognition they deserve.

    Rather unfortunate for S/S though. This really has been an underwhelming season for them.

  2. #107
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    That 4S was such a disaster. Yuko didn't even come close to landing it. It stinks that you can get so much credit for an element like that. And 2 judges gave them a +2 on their twist. At least one judge had some sense and gave them -1. Actually, a few teams with twists where the girl collided somewhat with the guy or didn't land so well (Dube and Davison) got some +GOE. Oh well.


    Are the judges listed on the protocol sheet in the same order for each skater? If yes, one judge gave Mukhortova/Trankov a -3 on their 3T-2T (she two footed the 3T and singled the 2T)... and gave Denney/Barrett a -2 on their 3T when he fell and she doubled! Even if this wasn't the same judge, how do you justify giving a -2 to that? How much worse did they need to be on this element for you to give them the -3 they were supposed to get?

    I can't look at the protocols. They sometimes make me nuts. But luckily, most of the results make sense. The only issue I have is K/S's placement.
    Last edited by gold12345; 03-24-2010 at 05:49 PM.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I'm upset that the Germans didn't win the free here. On what planet do Pang and Tong have better skating skills, better choregraphy and transitions than the Germans? I understand Pang and Tong winning this due to the short program. But they should not have gotten higher PCS than S/S here. Its pretty clear who has political favor and who does not. Poor S/S clearly they just don't have a powerful federation backing them.
    I'm not sure that P/T are better in those areas either...but I think their program, choreo and music choice just work for them better. I like S/S's Out of Africa....but beautiful as it is I think the music is just too docile for them. I always feel like they skate gorgeously but I could never replay their performance in my mind. Just didn't seem to leave as much of an impression as P/T's MoLM. Also, S/S do skate slower than P/T.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I'm upset that the Germans didn't win the free here. On what planet do Pang and Tong have better skating skills, better choregraphy and transitions than the Germans? I understand Pang and Tong winning this due to the short program. But they should not have gotten higher PCS than S/S here. Its pretty clear who has political favor and who does not. Poor S/S clearly they just don't have a powerful federation backing them.
    Never seen you being upset with K&S' scores from adopted mother Russia? What a stupid hypocrite. To whine about S&S not having political favor is just ridiculous. They got lots of gifts in 2007-2009 seasons. I'm sorry they're losing their clout in judges' minds. But please don't pretend they didn't get any gift in the past.
    Last edited by watchvancouver; 03-24-2010 at 06:02 PM.

  5. #110
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    Congrats to Pang and Tong very happy for them. Aliona and Robin skated a great program too.
    K/S made the podium they must be happy after placing 4th in Vancouver. I have to say
    when their score came up I was very surprised. I thought the Zhangs were undermarked.

  6. #111
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    Totally agreed. Yes, P/T didn't repeat their OLY performance this time, which is a bit disappointing. But they never won because of "a strong federation" (this works better for K/S) or any favors. They fought so hard for so long to improve their standing in the judges' minds. S/S happened to do well on their long program this time, but they are not consistent skaters at all. That's why they always faltered whenever S/Z, the true dominant pair, is in the same competition.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchvancouver View Post
    Never seen you being upset with K&S' scores from adopted mother Russia? What a stupid hypocrite. To whine about S&S not having political favor is just ridiculous. They got lots of gifts in 2007-2009 seasons. I'm sorry they're losing their clout in judges' minds. But please don't pretend they didn't get any gift in the past.
    Sorry about the double posting. Forgot to attach the quote. Totally agreed. Yes, P/T didn't repeat their OLY performance this time, which is a bit disappointing. But they never won because of "a strong federation" (this works better for K/S) or any favors. They fought so hard for so long to improve their standing in the judges' minds. S/S happened to do well on their long program this time, but they are not consistent skaters at all. That's why they always faltered whenever S/Z, the true dominant pair, is in the same competition.

  8. #113
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    Well done to Pang & Tong, not as good as their Olympic performance but still enjoyable. S/S bounced back well, they rightly got the silver but I think they will regard this season as very dissapointing. On Eurosport Steur said they were going to continue, I can't seem them going on to Sochi.

    K/S were overmarked, I feel bronze should have gone to M/T (I wonder if that is the last time they compete as a couple). Z/Z technichally as usual were top drawer but everything else was just ok. Impressed with D/D, I think this romantic style is their strenght, way better than their short. B/L have come on a lot this season, she need to work on the jumps still but the have got huge potential. Liked both amercians, the Italians and the French.

    Why have to cut the final round to 16? Can't see why they have cut it down.

  9. #114
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    Congratulations to P/T and S/S! S/S finally skated the program almost clean from visual effect, at least that double did not disturb the program that much. P/T had a fantastic season, and good for them finally being recognized. IMO they have had very complex chereographs for quite a few years but never got the TR that they should have until now. And to be able to do what they do they have to have great SS, I'm not saying that they are perfect, I know there is still room to grow, basic stroke wise and her posture sometimes. Z/Z is the only pair that skated completlely clean in both programs. Good for them. Hopefully that's a good start point for next cycle, they need to rebuild reputation and work more on their presentation to be back on the podium which I think they might just deserve this time already. I really don't think M/T should split, they could work on connections, especially she and could be really good. V/S would make a better pair to me.

  10. #115
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    yeah S/S have better basics than P/T, they can really work on stroking and edging.......in the last warmup group u can really see the difference between stroking of Aliona vs. Qing....i'd like to see S/S get higher SS marks too.

  11. #116
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    Yaguti and Smirnov had their best skate here, imo, if one ignores the wicked throws, but they continue to be a mismatch for me. Nothing more than ballet-like arms with little feeling.
    Pang and Tong could have been better but I agree to their medal winning.
    Savchenko and Szolkowy seem to have lost their glitz. Their stunning moves are no longer stunning.

    However, my biggest complaint is the music so many Pairs use. There is no change in rhythm. It all seems like background music to prevent mishaps with the tricks.

  12. #117
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    P/T won the free at the Olympics and the silver so now the judges think they are best which is kind of annoying. Then again I do like P/T a lot. They have really improved their performance level. They project more and it makes a better impact for sure but I still think S/S were and are better. It's okay though.

  13. #118
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    Top Ten Pairs in TES :

    1 Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN 66.82
    2 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER 65.86
    3 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN 65.55
    4 Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS 65.39
    5 Maria MUKHORTOVA / Maxim TRANKOV RUS 62.75
    6 Caydee DENNEY / Jeremy BARRETT USA 59.19
    7 Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS 59.18
    8 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA 58.5
    9 Jessica DUBE / Bryce DAVISON CAN 57.63
    10 Maylin HAUSCH / Daniel WENDE GER 51.28

    I agree with the Zhangs being first here. Technically when they're on they are really ON.

    Top Ten Pairs in PCS :

    1 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN 70.56
    2 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER 69.36
    3 Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS 67.28
    4 Maria MUKHORTOVA / Maxim TRANKOV RUS 66.16
    5 Jessica DUBE / Bryce DAVISON CAN 60.08
    6 Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN 59.76
    7 Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS 54.08
    8 Caydee DENNEY / Jeremy BARRETT USA 53.76
    9 Anabelle LANGLOIS / Cody HAY CAN 50.88
    10 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA 50.72

    I'm Ok with PangTong being first too. CH, PF and IN are better IMO. The Germans have better skills and transitiosn but I guess I'm in the minority who believes transitions are not the new quads and definetly not most important thing in skating like they are being held recently lol

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Yaguti and Smirnov had their best skate here, imo, if one ignores the wicked throws, but .
    Well if you have a "R" next to your name, ISU judges will always ignore those wicked throws.

  15. #120
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    Kavaguti and Smirnov were sooo overscored, it's not even funny. Ok, they do have nice lifts, better than some of the other top teams, but come on, there were TWO FALLS. M&T and Z&Z were robbed. You could even make a case for placing D&D ahead of K&S in the free skate!!

    Disappointed for L&H, and that Canada doesn't get three spots next year.

    Btw, I wonder if S&S will retire. I heard the Zhangs aren't, M&T might be breaking up, and I doubt K&S will because she just got Russian citizenship. I could see S&S staying in though because they are a relatively new team. I heard rumours of P&T retiring but I'm not sure if they're true.

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