Strange results in the men's short | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Strange results in the men's short

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
I have to disagree with people dissing PChiddy. Don't you get it? He has such DEEEEEEEEEEP edges! Who cares if he doesn't try a quad, or connect with the audience? His edges are so DEEEEEEEEP! In fact, as I was watching him skate, I kept thinking that he might accidentally cut all the way through the ice. Maybe he made the rut that Johnny slipped on in the Olys.

Ok, then Chan really should switch decipline to ice dance. This is men's skating! What is the difference between men's skating and ice dance?!:rolleye:

In ice dance, it needs connection with the audience too.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
According to this article
http://iceblue.cocolog-nifty.com/figure/2010/03/28-0242.html
Nobu couldn't hide tears in his eyes when being interviewed after the official practce before the SP.
The writer says everyone felt that Nobu had something depressing his mind.
But no one knows what's wrong.

But let's not specutate, he'll be okay, he'll deal with his problems so let's give him time..

Thanks for sharing. The article does not say anything, except for that Nob is totally in shock and not in his usual outburst mode. I watched Fuji TV broadcast and Takeshi Honda was puzzled by the way he skated, too. I was glad that TV was classy enough to leave out Nob's interview.

I hope that this is not going to be another trauma for him. He seems like a naive, soft-hearted boy.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I can kind of see where Johnny is coming from with that comment with the exception of Kozuka in this year's Worlds SP. Taka was making eye contact with the audience and showing great expression on his face and commitment to the choreography that really interpreted the feel of the music to Jimi Hendrix's "Bold as Love." He is growing into an entertainer and learning to come out of his shell. If what I saw yesterday is any indication, he's aware of that criticism of his skating and he is working on improving that apsect. He's no Dai yet, but give him some time. He hasn't been on the scene as long as Takahashi and doesn't yet have his reputation with the judges either. I was pleasantly surprised to see him earn an 84+ in the SP. Maybe finally the judges are starting to come around to warming up to him (I can hope).

Dai has been quite appealing since his debut. He seems more naturally talented in that department whereas Koz would need more work.

I read Koz realized after the Olympics that he should be more outgoing instead of just being satisfied with becoming the music. If you are attentive enough to notice that change just in a month, Koz would be very flattered.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Ok, then Chan really should switch decipline to ice dance. This is men's skating! What is the difference between men's skating and ice dance?!:rolleye:

In ice dance, it needs connection with the audience too.

Oh, the responses one could shoot back.

1. Do you think Chan lacks a significant audience connection? Any more so than Abbott, Kozuka, etc? He's not a natural showman (certainly not on par with Takahashi, or even Joubert), but I think he and his programs are quite effective in that regard (I think this will be more apparent if he nails the LP).

2. Do you think Chan is only about "deep edges?" If that were true, he wouldn't be any more successful than Laura Lepisto - a medal contender in a poor field, but under the top five when perfect. Obviously, that's not the case. I mean he gets high levels on footwork and spins (or do you think difficult spins and footwork aren't integral to figure skating?), does a full array of triples (which is admittedly the bare minimum for men, but still) and has programs that are so technically difficult, despite the lack of a quad. There's a reason he can compete with the ebst of the field, and that's why. It seems to me that your comment disregards everything he does well (which is just as reductive as the "figure jumping/ice jumping comments, or the people who disregard Joubert because of his physical attractiveness)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
i know braian had less transitions than daisuke and chan,

but how can quad jumpers have as much transitions as 3-3 jumpers do in their SP???

thats why judges are stupid.

I do not understand the logic of this statement.

Joubert did a big quad/triple combo -- so he got big points for it.

He did not do any transsitions -- so he got a lower mark in that category.

How are the judges stupid?
 

SamuraiKike

Medalist
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
If you have Universal Sports, Peter Carruthers had Johnny and Tara commentating on the pairs LP and men SP today. They pointed out some interesting stuff. Johnny said the Japanese normally do not project any emotion but Dai, boy oh boy, Dai projected like Julia Roberts in Erin Brokovich.

Off topic, but why they are dissing Dai so much LOL.. I wouldnt want to be compared with Robert's overated and contrived performances ever!!
 

ranjake

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Johnny Weir was such a fun and insightful commentator. He just nailed how I feel about Patrick Chan. Everyone says it's great and amazing, and some how I'm not computing it. Rippon is just out of this world, and my heart broke for Oda.
 

Basics

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
I think Daisuke was overscored about 2 ponts. He wasn't as floaty as he used to be, and the landing of some of his jumps were apparently wobbly.

IMO It should've been,

1. Patrick Chan
2. Daisuke Takahashi
3. Brian Joubert
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
:laugh: Right. Personally, I think Dai is more like Sandra Bullock.

Are you kidding me - Dai obviously has a Michael Jackson complex which is why it took me so long to warm up to his skating. When the emphasis is off his costume and hair - and on his skating - I am just enthralled with what he does on the ice.

It may be true that skaters like Chan, Jeremy and Taka need a little more personality on the ice - but I always thought Dai needed a little less with the over-the-top "Johnny" stuff and to just let his skating speak for itself.
 

cloudkicker09

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Brian Joubert was robbed of first place, plain and simple I am sick of all of this overscoring and over hype of Chan.

BRIAN JOUBERT WORLD CHAMPION 2010!!!!
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I do not understand the logic of this statement.

Joubert did a big quad/triple combo -- so he got big points for it.

He did not do any transsitions -- so he got a lower mark in that category.

How are the judges stupid?
I do not know what the poster may have meant, but my interpretation is that a quad takes more preparation and focus than a triple, resulting in less transitions.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Oh, the responses one could shoot back.

1. Do you think Chan lacks a significant audience connection? Any more so than Abbott, Kozuka, etc? He's not a natural showman (certainly not on par with Takahashi, or even Joubert), but I think he and his programs are quite effective in that regard (I think this will be more apparent if he nails the LP).

Could you please go back to the original post that I have responded to? I was refering to what Poodlepal said.:sheesh:

I agree with you on this. To me, Chan does have connections with the audience but his performance was just that. It was not on the par with Takahashi and Joubert. I actually think that Joubert did better than Takahashi this time. I don't see anything from Chan should be better than Joubert in PCS except TR. In SS, his spin might be better but Joubert did a perfect 4-3 (the only one in the top 6 skaters). So their SS should be at least even or Joubert's higher.

2. Do you think Chan is only about "deep edges?" If that were true, he wouldn't be any more successful than Laura Lepisto - a medal contender in a poor field, but under the top five when perfect. Obviously, that's not the case. I mean he gets high levels on footwork and spins (or do you think difficult spins and footwork aren't integral to figure skating?), does a full array of triples (which is admittedly the bare minimum for men, but still) and has programs that are so technically difficult, despite the lack of a quad. There's a reason he can compete with the ebst of the field, and that's why. It seems to me that your comment disregards everything he does well (which is just as reductive as the "figure jumping/ice jumping comments, or the people who disregard Joubert because of his physical attractiveness)

Again, you took my post out of context! Mister!

No, Chan's skating is not all about the deep edges, BUT his deep edge seems to have covered everything in judges' mind and in many Chan's fans' mind, and been hyped as the next best thing, or rather the best thing in the world right now. He has deep edges in his skating better than most of the male skaters. That's it, and that's all. Too much emphasize on the edges. That is not right! That is not all the men's skating about. He is competitive in his skating. However, does he have the best spin in the world? Does he have the best jump in the world? (Goodness, he is struggling with his 3A a lot of the times.) His footwork is one of the best in the world but is not THE best. His program is definitely not the best. It's just an average in the top 6 skaters. He didn't go all the way out in his performance. So he is over scored. Period!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
There are two types of performing artists. One goes after the audience with virtuosity; and the other draws the audience into his world of performing. Both are valid, but I doubt all judges would be aware of that.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
No, Chan's skating is not all about the deep edges, BUT his deep edge seems to have covered everything in judges' mind and in many Chan's fans' mind, and been hyped as the next best thing, or rather the best thing in the world right now. He has deep edges in his skating better than most of the male skaters. That's it, and that's all. Too much emphasize on the edges. That is not right! That is not all the men's skating about. He is competitive in his skating. However, does he have the best spin in the world? Does he have the best jump in the world? (Goodness, he is struggling with his 3A a lot of the times.) His footwork is one of the best in the world but is not THE best. His program is definitely not the best. It's just an average in the top 6 skaters. He didn't go all the way out in his performance. So he is over scored. Period!

Spoken like a true Joubot !

Anyone watching can see how much more Patrick is doing - that doesn't mean you have to be his fan - but his SP is just loaded with CH, TR and IN. His skating - when he is on and landing jumps is clearly superior. It is the skating of the future. Joubert and Plushy - even Johnny - are 6.0 skaters. Nothing wrong with that - but I can't imagine how anybody who watches Chan - and understands CoP - even a little bit - can't see that his style is just better than most of the other skaters.

Perhaps Patrick will consider doing a little less - and add a pelvic thrust or two - maybe the few pointing fingers :laugh: so more fans can understand what he is doing. His skating is by far the most intricate, his bladework the best and his overall package is the most sophisticated.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Tara said what Joesitz said.
About the quad-triple is 4.3 higher than a flip triple combo, it's not enough because 4.3 does not reflect how much harder it is to add one more revolution in the air. The reward is not enough. Real skaters all said it. Michael Weiss, Kristi Yamaguchi, Peter Carruthers, Tara Lipinski, Johnny Weir. I would imagine real skaters know how hard it is to add one more revolution in the air compare to fans sitting at home saying 4.3 is perfectly enough. There are people who regularly do triples said the base value for quad is too low, and then there are people who couldn't do single toe and think adding another revolution is only worth so and so. Seriously? janetfan, seriously? =)
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Tara said what Joesitz said.
About the quad-triple is 4.3 higher than a flip triple combo, it's not enough because 4.3 does not reflect how much harder it is to add one more revolution in the air. The reward is not enough. Real skaters all said it. Michael Weiss, Kristi Yamaguchi, Peter Carruthers, Tara Lipinski, Johnny Weir. I would imagine real skaters know how hard it is to add one more revolution in the air compare to fans sitting at home saying 4.3 is perfectly enough. There are people who regularly do triples said the base value for quad is too low, and then there are people who couldn't do single toe and think adding another revolution is only worth so and so. Seriously? janetfan, seriously? =)

Yea - seriously - 35% of Jouberts TES came from one jumping pass. Did he do anything else that was as good as Dai or Patrick? For that matter his jumps are sort of muscled like Plushy's (and Rachaels) --not such good landings and no real flow out of them.

I thought Jouby skated very well yesterday. It is the best he can do - but I agree with the judges - that others did a little better.

Where Joubert gets these high TR, CH and IN marks from is a mystery. Is bopping to techno music even to be compared with what some of the others are doing?

If your taste runs that way then that is fine. It is subjective. My taste runs a different way.
Basically, the three guys are pretty close and the best skate in the LP will be the determining factor.

If we make a quad worth say - 50% of the TES in the SP - will that still be considered "figure skating?" I think it would be something else.......
 
Top