Strange results in the men's short | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Strange results in the men's short

ryoko

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Takahashi and Joubert really SOLD their programs. Chan was excellent technically, but it's a bit like watching a windup toy going through its paces---no audience connection. Yes, Chan earns high TR and CH scores, but PE and IN scores should be considerably lower than Dai and Brian's.

I also think Abbott was robbed. He should have scored in the 84-85 range, certainly higher than Brezina.

I can't agree more!
I feel that if Abbott skated last or much later in the group he would have gotten better pcs.
 

PROKOFIEV

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Takahashi and Joubert really SOLD their programs. Chan was excellent technically, but it's a bit like watching a windup toy going through its paces---no audience connection. Yes, Chan earns high TR and CH scores, but PE and IN scores should be considerably lower than Dai and Brian's.

I also think Abbott was robbed. He should have scored in the 84-85 range, certainly higher than Brezina.

I totally agreen with your comment. Chan is a great jumper,but I just could not enjoy his program this time. Maybe he was just too busy thinking about perfecting all the technical elements that he forgot to put his heart into whole program.
 

yangjie

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
If we could just dump the music and have each skater select 5 jumps and 1 combo to be judged individually we could stop harping on this almighty quad. Diving does that, and they have base values for each of the dives. Scale the jumps from 0-10 and forget about GoEs. Would you pay to see it? I would. It's total sport. Keep the music for the LP.

what i want to say is that there are differences between getting high score in a high school and in a uni, although sometimes getting a high score in a high school is difficult.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
I can't agree more!
I feel that if Abbott skated last or much later in the group he would have gotten better pcs.

True! Because Abbott was in the earlier group. The earlier group skaters don't usually get the same or higher PCS corridor. That's why, and That's why it's stupid.

I don't get it. If Rippon and Brezina could get those high scores, then Abbott was definitely underscored.:cry: I thought that Abbott should be in the 84 range.

As of Joubert, with his performance and technics for today, I have no doubt that he should be in the first place. At least should be in front of Chan. To see the performances today, I believe that raising the quad's value is absolutely necessary and a valid argument.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
True! Because Abbott was in the earlier group. The earlier group skaters don't usually get the same or higher PCS corridor. That's why, and That's why it's stupid.

I don't get it. If Rippon and Brezina could get those high scores, then Abbott was definitely underscored.:cry: I thought that Abbott should be in the 84 range.

As of Joubert, with his performance and technics for today, I have no doubt that he should be in the first place. At least should be in front of Chan. From this performances today, I believe that raising the quad's value is absolutely necessary and a valid argument.

Do people really think Abbott is that much better than Rippon or Brezina? I mean maybe at his best he's a bit better, but I watched him today, he looked super nervous and didn't really sell the program. I'd say this is comparable to what happened to Mirai in the SP at the Olympics, Miki and Rachael were ahead of her and some people thought that was outrageous, but essentially it was a 3 way tie, and Mirai skated early, and she was a bit tentative and her combo wasn't the best. The same holds true with Jeremy, his scores are the way they are because: 1.) He skated early 2.) He skated tentatively 3.) The landing on his 3a wasn't great. Also, he, Brezina, and Rippon are essentially tied, and he's maybe paying his dues for being a headcase (he was only 11th at worlds last year and not so great at the Olympics a few weeks ago).
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Do people really think Abbott is that much better than Rippon or Brezina? I mean maybe at his best he's a bit better, but I watched him today, he looked super nervous and didn't really sell the program. I'd say this is comparable to what happened to Mirai in the SP at the Olympics, Miki and Rachael were ahead of her and some people thought that was outrageous, but essentially it was a 3 way tie, and Mirai skated early, and she was a bit tentative and her combo wasn't the best. The same holds true with Jeremy, his scores are the way they are because: 1.) He skated early 2.) He skated tentatively 3.) The landing on his 3a wasn't great. Also, he, Brezina, and Rippon are essentially tied, and he's maybe paying his dues for being a headcase (he was only 11th at worlds last year and not so great at the Olympics a few weeks ago).

Do you think it's fair to argue that he supposedly should get a lower score because he skated earlier? I know it was the fact but it was not fair! Rippon had a rugh, even worse landing in his 3A. Brezina skated nervously too. If you compare Jeremy's skating today with his Nationals SP, this time wasn't as good as that time. But his score definitely shouldn't be this low if everyone's scores are that high.
 

ryoko

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
True! Because Abbott was in the earlier group. The earlier group skaters don't usually get the same or higher PCS corridor. That's why, and That's why it's stupid.

I don't get it. If Rippon and Brezina could get those high scores, then Abbott was definitely underscored.:cry: I thought that Abbott should be in the 84 range.

As of Joubert, with his performance and technics for today, I have no doubt that he should be in the first place. At least should be in front of Chan. From this performances today, I believe that raising the quad's value is absolutely necessary and a valid argument.

Adam deserved the score he got- he had stepped out of 3A and based on how other top skaters performed today he simply could not afford a mistake. But I do agree that joubert should have been placed before chan- not a fan of his skating but he sold his program in a unique way and it was pretty uplifting.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Do you think it's fair to argue that he supposedly should get a lower score because he skated earlier? I know it was the fact but it was not fair! Rippon had a rugh, even worse landing in his 3A. Brezina skated nervously too. If you compare Jeremy's skating today with his Nationals SP, this time wasn't as good as that time. But his score definitely shouldn't be this low if everyone's scores are that high.

I don't think it's fair that he got lower scores because he skated earlier, I'm just saying that it probably played a factor in his slightly low score. Fair or not, it's just the reality, for example, I kind of doubt Mirai would have finished 4th at the Olympics if she had skated when Rachael skated instead of skating last - that does not mean she didn't deserve to win 4th, I thought she deserved to win 3rd, but it's unfortunately one of the drawbacks of this sport. Jeremy skates first in the last group tomorrow too, so he may be at a slight disadvantage but considering his nerves I actually think it's a good thing he skated early in both the SP and the FS, and for him, I think skating two clean programs at an event like Worlds is more important than if he places 4th or 6th, in this deep field of men, medaling is a stretch for him anyways. He looked satisfied with his scores in the Kiss and Cry, and most importantly I think he gained his confidence back.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
All well, at least Abbott shouldn't be robbed that much in LP because he will be in the last group to skate. The system is as funny as this!;)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
All well, at least Abbott shouldn't be robbed that much in LP because he will be in the last group to skate. The system is as funny as this!;)

Well he skates first in the last group, so maybe what happened to Rachael at the Olympics will happen to him - get high, well-deserved PCS but get issued a few bogus downgrades to keep him down incase the favorites bomb? :rolleye:
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Well he skates first in the last group, so maybe what happened to Rachael at the Olympics will happen to him - get high, well-deserved PCS but get issued a few bogus downgrades to keep him down incase the favorites bomb? :rolleye:

I think Jeremy is one of the skaters who don't get enough PCS in the international competitions. Cross my fingers.:scowl:


Edited to Add:

I have just re-watched Jeremy's today's SP. His 3A was clean, he only had a bit lean over his upper body when he landed it.
 
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doug_log

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Does anyone else find Joubert's landing positions atrocious? Yes, he gets great height, but his inability - or refusal - to hold a landing edge and extend his free leg and arms bugs me to no end. His Triple Lutz fist-pump was so distracting. I would have had him in 6th, just ahead of Rippon. Sorry, Vlad. First place? No way.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Does anyone else find Joubert's landing positions atrocious? Yes, he gets great height, but his inability - or refusal - to hold a landing edge and extend his free leg and arms bugs me to no end. His Triple Lutz fist-pump was so distracting. I would have had him in 6th, just ahead of Rippon. Sorry, Vlad. First place? No way.

Pretty European bonus...
 

treeloving

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
For me Joubert really should get higher score in intrepretation,he really sell his program,so enjoyable to watch.

I'm glad that he seems to really enjoy his skating and skate happily.
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Where did Joubert lose points other than PCS? Chan and Dai caught up with Joubert not only through PCS, but also through TES.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
For me Joubert really should get higher score in intrepretation,he really sell his program,so enjoyable to watch.

I'm glad that he seems to really enjoy his skating and skate happily.

Perhaps so, however, he should also be given with more approriate transition marks too. 7.7 for his effort vs. 7.2 for Abbott, if I were the referee, those judges have some very good explaining to do... I get the impression that this predominantly eastern European judges on this men's panel needs a crush course on what transition means. Times to times, we will get a panel like this, usually at the Worlds, where judges are drawn from all available ISU member nations whereas the Olympic for instance, is only drawn from countries with qualified skaters and tend to get more experienced judges as a result. Consistency in the quality of judges become an issue when you have too many ISU member nations. Some countries have only 1 ISU judge and he/she is literarly running a one man show and the nation has absolutely no skating program like USFS or Skate Canada or even Japan or Russia has. At last year's Worlds in LA where I was in attendance, similar issues were raised re: men's judging. You addressed those with the judges involved, they get it and become better next time. But the problem is it seems with the big ISU membership, this year, similar problem happens again, with 9 new people. Looking at the names, those judges seem relatively new compared to some of the more veteran judges. In comparison, the Olympic men's panel is a lot more experienced and which is also why Plushenko got only 6 something for his transition in his SP. If you accept Joubert's transition = Plushenko's as he claimed, then there is no reason why the World panel should give Joubert one full point higher on his transition compared to Plushenko in Vancouver. No matter what angle you look at this, Joubert's PCS mark was wrong on so many levels but it's not the skater's fault.
 
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wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Where did Joubert lose points other than PCS? Chan and Dai caught up with Joubert not only through PCS, but also through TES.

In the step sequence for instance, both Chan and Dai had one Level 4 circular step sequence, which gives them a huge boost in terms of GOE and about 0.6 higher in BV. The diffrence there is likely worth between 1.5~2 points on that element alone. You do the math, it's no wonder Joubert was left with not much of advantage in TES after everything is counted.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I am waiting for triple transitions into single jumps. Now you have transitions into triples being more respected than quadruples. Crazy. Can't wait for announcers to start saying "will so and so pull out their quadruple transition?" LOL LOL Joubert was robbed.
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
Where did Joubert lose points other than PCS? Chan and Dai caught up with Joubert not only through PCS, but also through TES.

Exactly - and that's the problem. Joubert should have been much higher in TES compared to Chan and Dai. He did a 4-3.

The quad needs to be given a couple extra points in value so that those who land it successfully are rewarded so that they place higher in relation to those like Chan who don't even bother to attempt it.
 
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