Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 121

Thread: Strange results in the men's short

  1. #46
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,782
    If you have Universal Sports, Peter Carruthers had Johnny and Tara commentating on the pairs LP and men SP today. They pointed out some interesting stuff. Johnny said the Japanese normally do not project any emotion but Dai, boy oh boy, Dai projected like Julia Roberts in Erin Brokovich.

  2. #47
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Both Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir said Brian Joubert should place higher. Tara said he not only did a 4-3, but REALLY SOLD the program. Tara was really impressed. She said she understood why Plushenko lost to Evan because even though he did the quad, the rest of the program was not there. He didn't sell it. Joubert sold it like the girl scouts selling their cookies. You have to give him perfect performance and execution points. His PCS was lower than it should be.
    Johnny and Tara said the base value for the quad should increase to match the difficulty. Johnny said the risk for doing the quad is so much more and even though he's not a quad skater, he still thinks a quad is very important. He said doing the quad in practice is very hard, doing it and landing it in competition is extremely difficult.

    Personally, after watching it, I thought Brian Joubert would go into the lead with 92+. His SP is a lot better than Plushenko SP at the Olympics.
    One thing I agree with Johnny is he mentioned both Brian and Dai really connect to the audience. Chan connected his elements, like the Zhangs. =).
    ITA. I thought Joubert really good and he deserves better scores on performance, choreos, and interpretation. Joubert should have gotten similar scores on PCS as Dai.

    Although his TES may not deserve higher scores than Dai because of a lower level on steps under the current system, the system should be built in a way in which the difference between his 4-3 and Dai's 3-3 can be reflected on the final outcome. Not only 4-3 is so much more difficult than 3-3, Dai's 3-3 was so tight in rotation as it often is.

  3. #48
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Europe,Moldova
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    Yes, Joubert is very adorable in some ways, but he had a dirty mouth at the Olmypics.
    At the olympics it was just emotions.I know everyone should control them but it's depends of the personal character

  4. #49
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Europe,Moldova
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Any news on what happened with Oda? I imagine something had to be very, very wrong.
    Yeah.Such a pity.Maybe it just wasn't his day

  5. #50
    Edgy Details
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Cracow
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Do people really think Abbott is that much better than Rippon or Brezina? I mean maybe at his best he's a bit better, but I watched him today, he looked super nervous and didn't really sell the program.
    To me, he totally sold it. He was better than Brezina, although I adore Michal too.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Both Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir said Brian Joubert should place higher. Tara said he not only did a 4-3, but REALLY SOLD the program. Tara was really impressed.
    Well, I was not... Well, to each his own. Fist pumping and the opening 'choreography'.. Oh no. I am not buying it. But I am not going to beat the dead horse, this has been already discussed a lot. Nevertheless, he deserved the top 4.

    I guess I will be the only one who liked Chan's performance even better than Daisuke's. Both were great, just very different. Daisuke was fiery and very energetic, sometimes too much to me. I liked more subtle and sophisticated interpretation from Chan. It was full of hidden nuances. Everything was flowing and was totally effortless, whereas Daisuke's program was a bit more chaotic to me sometimes. I still think that both were top two. Almost tied to me.

  6. #51
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    If you have Universal Sports, Peter Carruthers had Johnny and Tara commentating on the pairs LP and men SP today. They pointed out some interesting stuff. Johnny said the Japanese normally do not project any emotion but Dai, boy oh boy, Dai projected like Julia Roberts in Erin Brokovich.
    This is true not just in figure skating but dance performances, etc. I see them occasionally (altho amateur dancers), and they have fantastic moves but don't always emote very well.

    That's why I was totally shocked at how expressive Dai was when I first saw him. If you compare Oda & Kozuka to Dai, they look like stoic statues.

  7. #52
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    Yes, Joubert is very adorable in some ways, but he had a dirty mouth at the Olmypics.
    Did he say anything at the Oly?

  8. #53
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    430
    I agree with a lot of what people have said here.
    I think the short program should be split into two: a jumping bee, where skaters do jumps in a uniform with no music, and a pure interpretive section where they can do no more than doubles. The two sections can be combined to equal one short program. I would also either allow vocal music in the interpretive section, and/or have a theme, like they do in ice dancing. It could be music from a particular composer, or a particular kind of music, or from a show, or a folk dance from their country, or whatever, varying year to year. The long program would stay the same. I agree with the poster who wanted a pure technical section, but I would also add a pure musical section as well. I'd pay to see that.

    I have to disagree with people dissing PChiddy. Don't you get it? He has such DEEEEEEEEEEP edges! Who cares if he doesn't try a quad, or connect with the audience? His edges are so DEEEEEEEEP! In fact, as I was watching him skate, I kept thinking that he might accidentally cut all the way through the ice. Maybe he made the rut that Johnny slipped on in the Olys.

    If Joubert or Takahashi want to win, I'd suggest they forget all about their quad, speed and peppy footwork and work on their deeep edges and transitions, so they can match the wonder of Patrick Chan.

  9. #54
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I agree with a lot of what people have said here.
    I think the short program should be split into two: a jumping bee, where skaters do jumps in a uniform with no music, and a pure interpretive section where they can do no more than doubles. The two sections can be combined to equal one short program. I would also either allow vocal music in the interpretive section, and/or have a theme, like they do in ice dancing. It could be music from a particular composer, or a particular kind of music, or from a show, or a folk dance from their country, or whatever, varying year to year. The long program would stay the same. I agree with the poster who wanted a pure technical section, but I would also add a pure musical section as well. I'd pay to see that.

    I have to disagree with people dissing PChiddy. Don't you get it? He has such DEEEEEEEEEEP edges! Who cares if he doesn't try a quad, or connect with the audience? His edges are so DEEEEEEEEP! In fact, as I was watching him skate, I kept thinking that he might accidentally cut all the way through the ice. Maybe he made the rut that Johnny slipped on in the Olys.

    If Joubert or Takahashi want to win, I'd suggest they forget all about their quad, speed and peppy footwork and work on their deeep edges and transitions, so they can match the wonder of Patrick Chan.
    I think that Pat Chan's scores are justifiable. But I also think that Joubert should get more for his presentation and quad-triple. I also hope that Koz also receives exceptional SS and TR marks. Patrick is miles away in sophistication and maturity in presentation, but Koz's deep edges should be acknowledged just as much by judges. His SP is like a long step sequence throughout the program. They look very difficult and his upper body movements are interestingly meaningful. He just does not reach out the audience as much as the other top skaters.

  10. #55
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,831
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Although his TES may not deserve higher scores than Dai because of a lower level on steps under the current system, the system should be built in a way in which the difference between his 4-3 and Dai's 3-3 can be reflected on the final outcome. Not only 4-3 is so much more difficult than 3-3, Dai's 3-3 was so tight in rotation as it often is.
    I am confused. Why do you think the current difference of 4.3 points in BV between the 4T+3T vs. 3F+3T is deemed "not reflected on the final outcome"? That's a huge advantage, 4.3 points - like 1/3 of Oda's TES from yesterday. The advantage of having the 4T vs. 3F is like getting the value of an additional Triple toe or Salchow, which is more than plenty. Plus, the value of 4T + 3T = 13.8, which represents about 35% of Joubert's total base value out of 8 elements. So I'd ask people who constantly complained about Quad not getting proper credit...35% of the program for one element doesn't sound like "proper recognition" to you and please explain why.

    Everything else being equal, having the Quad would have been enough to put Joubert on top regardless of his PCS yesterday. But the rest of his technical elements didn't keep up. Did you even listen to what he said in the press conference afterward? He admitted that his jump combo wasn't as smooth and he didn't care about the levels on his spins and steps and made some small errors. Even his solo jumps weren't that great, with almost no transition go into them and his exits, not as strong as the other two skaters. It seems to me as though people who complained about Quad not getting enough credits tend to overlook everything else. Well, figure skating is not a one jump sport - it's not called figure solo jumping.

  11. #56
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    wallylutz, you're hitting the nail on the head with that, though it's generally a losing battle.

  12. #57
    nefertiti..reincarnate
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tokyo
    Posts
    865
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Any news on what happened with Oda? I imagine something had to be very, very wrong.
    According to this article
    http://iceblue.cocolog-nifty.com/fig...3/28-0242.html
    Nobu couldn't hide tears in his eyes when being interviewed after the official practce before the SP.
    The writer says everyone felt that Nobu had something depressing his mind.
    But no one knows what's wrong.

    But let's not specutate, he'll be okay, he'll deal with his problems so let's give him time..

  13. #58
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I am confused. Why do you think the current difference of 4.3 points in BV between the 4T+3T vs. 3F+3T is deemed "not reflected on the final outcome"? That's a huge advantage, 4.3 points - like 1/3 of Oda's TES from yesterday. The advantage of having the 4T vs. 3F is like getting the value of an additional Triple toe or Salchow, which is more than plenty. Plus, the value of 4T + 3T = 13.8, which represents about 35% of Joubert's total base value out of 8 elements. So I'd ask people who constantly complained about Quad not getting proper credit...35% of the program for one element doesn't sound like "proper recognition" to you and please explain why.

    Everything else being equal, having the Quad would have been enough to put Joubert on top regardless of his PCS yesterday. But the rest of his technical elements didn't keep up. Did you even listen to what he said in the press conference afterward? He admitted that his jump combo wasn't as smooth and he didn't care about the levels on his spins and steps and made some small errors. Even his solo jumps weren't that great, with almost no transition go into them and his exits, not as strong as the other two skaters. It seems to me as though people who complained about Quad not getting enough credits tend to overlook everything else. Well, figure skating is not a one jump sport - it's not called figure solo jumping.
    Good points. It seems like much of the griping about the quad is more "fan based" and has little to do with the actual scoring system.
    Getting 35% of your TES from one jumping pass seems more than fair - and Joubert/Plushy fans don't want to consider spins, steps, and transitions because it is simply not the strength of their favorite.

    We see this as well when they vigorously object to skaters like Evan and Patrick getting credit in areas where their favorites are weak.

  14. #59
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    We see this as well when they vigorously object to skaters like Evan and Patrick getting credit in areas where their favorites are weak.
    Exactly.

  15. #60
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Storybrooke, Maine
    Posts
    3,674
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Johnny said the Japanese normally do not project any emotion but Dai, boy oh boy, Dai projected like Julia Roberts in Erin Brokovich.
    I can kind of see where Johnny is coming from with that comment with the exception of Kozuka in this year's Worlds SP. Taka was making eye contact with the audience and showing great expression on his face and commitment to the choreography that really interpreted the feel of the music to Jimi Hendrix's "Bold as Love." He is growing into an entertainer and learning to come out of his shell. If what I saw yesterday is any indication, he's aware of that criticism of his skating and he is working on improving that apsect. He's no Dai yet, but give him some time. He hasn't been on the scene as long as Takahashi and doesn't yet have his reputation with the judges either. I was pleasantly surprised to see him earn an 84+ in the SP. Maybe finally the judges are starting to come around to warming up to him (I can hope).

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •