Ladies - LP

silverlake22 said:

Have you seen her skate live? I think that might change your mind....she is SO fast and her jumps are HUGE :agree:. And she's just so beautiful and has great facial expressions .

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Speed can be different live. But facial expressions I think you can see better close up.

Spun Silver said:

I think this is a valid point. One of the frustrations with Mao this season is that she has lost or sacrificed that light, happy quality. (Tarasova said something like "suffer now for glory later" and Mao seems to have taken that literally.) To be fair, her programs this season also didn't call for happy faces. Whereas Yu Na has acquired the ability to do amazing things with seeming ease, and even delight. It's really extraordinary and deserves the high scores. I very much hope that next season Mao's programs give her a chance to regain that beautiful and joyous flow that she used to be known for.

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Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.

Norpido said:

Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.

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Or we could just say that the facial expression should match the music? I think what Spun Silver is saying is that Yu-na took command of her music and interpreted it very well while w/Mao, while drama is good, if it's overwhelming you, then it's just... overwhelming lols. It all depends on your music and the look you're going for. If you're skating to joyful music, skate joyfully. If you're skating to more dramatic music, really let your inner drama queen/king (? lols) shine and attack it. And Mao does have a wonderful, light, airy quality to her skating that was probably why she struggled w/Bells.

Norpido said:

Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.

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I'm one of very few people who actually like Mao's LP music. In case of facial expressions, Mao has almost monotone expression: the same throughout, but Yu Na has several different expressions. However, I don't think this facial expression matter is not as big as jump quality, transitions, spins and etc. Mao focused on her 3A so much that she gave away a lot of points in other elements. I hope she gets a great full time coach soon. Why doesn't she want to move outside of Japan for full time training?

"Bells" is a very difficult piece to pull off, because it's strange and empty feeling. Therefore, it draws extra focus to what the skater is actually doing. That's probably why the program won't work if Mao makes even one mistake because it becomes quite disruptive. Whereas, for a more pleasing type of music, little mistakes can be more tolerant. Also, I think why the music piece and Mao doesn't fit is because of her style of skating. Mao has always had a quiet presence on the ice. However, "Bells" needs a skater to have a larger than life presence on the ice to effectively pull it off. In other words, he/she needs to be a diva. However, it's pretty hard for anyone to picture Mao as a diva. I also watched Jeffrey Buttle's interpretation of this music and I didn't think he pulled it off either because he doesn't have that diva presence. I think this music could work on Yagudin or Plushenko because their egos were big enough.

Lilith11 said:

Or we could just say that the facial expression should match the music? I think what Spun Silver is saying is that Yu-na took command of her music and interpreted it very well while w/Mao, while drama is good, if it's overwhelming you, then it's just... overwhelming lols. It all depends on your music and the look you're going for. If you're skating to joyful music, skate joyfully. If you're skating to more dramatic music, really let your inner drama queen/king (? lols) shine and attack it. And Mao does have a wonderful, light, airy quality to her skating that was probably why she struggled w/Bells.

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Um how do you want Mao to look then in a drama piece? It's not overwhelming lols when you land a perfect performance.

Just like you think Mao can't cope with drama in her expression I can say that Yu Na doesn't convey feeling or that she looks butt ugly trying to squeeze out a smile. But I didn't. I just said that Yu Na can't execute feelings with here skating nor her facial expressions.

Yu Na is not superior like some of you say because she makes high scores. She is simply doing more combinations than Mao is. It has nothing to do with her being facial happy or skating without ease like hard core fans like to think she is.

One has to remember that there are two kinds of art. One is performance - Yuna, Mao and one is creative - Wilson, Tarrasova.. On the exceptional skater like John Curry one has the performer and creator in one person. I think a skating fan should also say something about the choreographer.

Norpido said:

Um how do you want Mao to look then in a drama piece? It's not overwhelming lols when you land a perfect performance.

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downgraded jump = perfection to you LOL

Norpido said:

Yu Na is not superior like some of you say because she makes high scores. She is simply doing more combinations than Mao is. It has nothing to do with her being facial happy or skating without ease like hard core fans like to think she is.

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I'm pretty sure at least 1 point of YuNa's 150-point Olympic LP was because of her smiiiiiling!

lols

Mathman said:

I think the right way to handle a situation this situation is like this. Yu-na gets positive GOE on her jump element for "unusual entry," while Mirai's Ina Bauer just counts toward the Transitions mark.

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Wow isn't transitions and unusal entry are the same?? Unless Yuna been getting huge +GEO for getting nto her jump element on her head.

jian10 said:

I'm one of very few people who actually like Mao's LP music. In case of facial expressions, Mao has almost monotone expression: the same throughout, but Yu Na has several different expressions. However, I don't think this facial expression matter is not as big as jump quality, transitions, spins and etc. Mao focused on her 3A so much that she gave away a lot of points in other elements. I hope she gets a great full time coach soon. Why doesn't she want to move outside of Japan for full time training?

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Isn't she really close to her family? She's tried the training abroad thing with Arutunian before. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the homesickness became too much for her then. Also, she has a good training facility in Japan, having private ice time at her university's rink. So I suppose she has it all there, except the full-time coach. On the other hand, if she decides on a new coach who is based abroad, I don't think she has much choice but to move. It's usually the students who follow the coaches. It's hard for the students, but it seems it's the way things are mostly done. This is why I'm wondering if Javier and the Reeds will follow Morozov to Russia (Miki seems like she will). It's also why Carroll leaving Toyota Center also made skating news.

prettykeys said:

downgraded jump = perfection to you LOL

I'm pretty sure at least 1 point of YuNa's 150-point Olympic LP was because of her smiiiiiling!

lols

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These days, if a skater doesn't kiss the ice with the butt or pop a jump or double a jump, or skip an entire elements or struggle with spins and spiral, many would consider it close to perfection. Perfection will require getting all +3 GOE on jumps, getting max level 4 on non jumps elements and getting a full 10 on PCS citeria. Since no skater has achieve it, no skater has yet to delivered a perfect performace, and that goes both Kim, Asada, Men, Pairs and Dance.

wonderlen3000 said:

These days, if a skater doesn't kiss the ice with the butt or pop a jump or double a jump, or skip an entire elements or struggle with spins and spiral, many would consider it close to perfection. Perfection will require getting all +3 GOE on jumps, getting max level 4 on non jumps elements and getting a full 10 on PCS citeria. Since no skater has achieve it, no skater has yet to delivered a perfect performace, and that goes both Kim, Asada, Men, Pairs and Dance.

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Clearly, Norpido's standards for "perfection" are lower. Plus, he/she doesn't like smiles.

Lilith11 said:

Or we could just say that the facial expression should match the music? I think what Spun Silver is saying is that Yu-na took command of her music and interpreted it very well while w/Mao, while drama is good, if it's overwhelming you, then it's just... overwhelming lols. It all depends on your music and the look you're going for. If you're skating to joyful music, skate joyfully. If you're skating to more dramatic music, really let your inner drama queen/king (? lols) shine and attack it. And Mao does have a wonderful, light, airy quality to her skating that was probably why she struggled w/Bells.

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ITA. Do choreography and expressions to suit the music. Therefore, kudos to Mao for finally pulling it off.

prettykeys said:

downgraded jump = perfection to you LOL

I'm pretty sure at least 1 point of YuNa's 150-point Olympic LP was because of her smiiiiiling!

lols

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It's hard to see that live.

No I think you are wrong. Smiling does not grant points. Ugly smile definately not.

prettykeys said:

Clearly, Norpido's standards for "perfection" are lower. Plus, he/she doesn't like smiles.

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As I said. See it live and you won't get more closer.

I think you are getting confused with Gala performance or Disney acts. Making a spiral close to the judges smiling your a## off does not make anyone happy than perhaps die hard fans like yourself.

Norpido said:

As I said. See it live and you won't get more closer.

I think you are getting confused with Gala performance or Disney acts. Making a spiral close to the judges smiling your a## off does not make anyone happy than perhaps die hard fans like yourself.

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Are you sure? I'm looking at that pretty smile right now, I like it so much I put it as my profile avatar. There must be a reason why YuNa gets good PCS when she skates well and smiles. I thought it was partly because she skates to smiling music and puts on a big smile. I don't think she would get as good of a score if she was frowning or scowling like I imagine you must be. :think:

hikki said:

I personally thought she finally did Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C sharp minor justice at worlds.[/B] I was one of the people who dissed her choice of music thoroughout the season, but boy I respect this girl so much more now with her determined and passionate delivery of the performance.

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I totally agree that Mao finally did Rach's prelude in c sharp minor justice. Not sure if this is TT's choice or Mao's choice. But this is a very tough piece of music to skate to. This piece of music kind of has a tortured history. At Rachmaninoff's time, it was sooooo popular with audience that he was asked to play this piece in every concert, At one point Rachmaninoff hated the piece, and regreted that he composed the piece. TT may know about this aspect of the piece, why did she chose that for Mao??? The music is very unforgiving to skater, and difficult to intrpret, unlike Gershwin. It reminds me of Michelle's 2000-01 LP music song of the black swan. All season I was wondering why on earth did Lori choose such an almost unskateable piece for MK? But when Michelle finally conqueored the piece at worlds (and she had to put up with the airline losing her costume, and a broken heel on her skate), it made her win so much more special. Same for Mao here, ppl may say that she is not interpreting this to full potential, but I think she skated this as good as any skater can. I don't think even Michelle can interpret this piece better. I think TT intended to challenge Mao artistically just like Lori tried to challange MK with song of black swan. Mao lived up to this challenge, that does not mean her intepretation is the best or she intrepret the piece to full potential. But until some skater in the future who can do prelude to c sharp minor better justice and win a world gold, dare I say this piece is kinda Mao's signature piece, or at least prelude in c sharp minor is a memorablel milestone in her development as an artist .

I like Yuna's use of every part of her body, includng her neck, back the upper body. They're all connected.

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I like Yuna's arms. But her spirals / spins etc are just not artistically as pleasing to my eyes as e.g. Nagasu or Caroline Zhang etc

I think Mao is better at making prettier positions with pointed toes and stretched arms (e.g. her spiral). I don't think her body movements are as smoothly connected as Yuna's.

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Mao is much more flexible, and I think she has better carriage, and I agree she strikes very pretty positions, pointed toes and all. (I think Caroline has prettier positions). To me Mao is the most etheral skater, there is such a lightness to her skating that is artistically pleasing to my eyes. Unfortuately these qualities donot generate points in a competiion. I always prefer her exhibition pieces to her competitiion programs.

prettykeys said:

Are you sure? I'm looking at that pretty smile right now, I like it so much I put it as my profile avatar. There must be a reason why YuNa gets good PCS when she skates well and smiles. I thought it was partly because she skates to smiling music and puts on a big smile. I don't think she would get as good of a score if she was frowning or scowling like I imagine you must be. :think:

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It's strange reading some of these emotionally-motivated anti-Yuna comments because when I see Yuna skate, I see a gorgeous girl who is just mesmerizing to watch.

Daniel5555 said:

The comparison is skewed for too many reasons to count. Again, it's not me who started to compare that. (the guy above my post can tell you a lot how to compare skaters of different generations)

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I think counting 4CC definitely skewed to YuNa's favor, since MK did not compete in 4CC. Also European skaters don't participate in 4C, therefore it is not exactly a world wide competition. I have no interest in comparing the 2. MK is my favorite, even if she has 0 and Yuna has 100, I still prefer MK.

I never heard her mentioning Janet Lynn, but well, I don't read about her too much, you must know better. But at least from skaters that compete now, Yuna is her favorite which is more than enough. Janet Lynn could be the inspiration for Michelle.

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I don't know whether YuNa is MK 's favorite or not, if so it won't influence how I feel about YuNa's skating one tiny bit. But I may be wrong, I get the impression that you like MK b/c YuNa likes her.

prettykeys said:

Are you sure? I'm looking at that pretty smile right now, I like it so much I put it as my profile avatar. There must be a reason why YuNa gets good PCS when she skates well and smiles. I thought it was partly because she skates to smiling music and puts on a big smile. I don't think she would get as good of a score if she was frowning or scowling like I imagine you must be. :think:

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We simply have different opinion of what is beautiful smile and not. Nothing to be confused of. Maybe you can't differentiate between a true smile and a worked smile.