Ladies - LP | Page 49 | Golden Skate

Ladies - LP

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Cynthia's Spiral was only a level 2 in the long but a level 4 in the short. This cost her the Bronze cause it would have given her another 2 points in the long.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Why should Laura have to learn anything? At the rate she's going, she could double ALL her jumps and still make the podium.

Sorry, but I am super unimpressed with Laura. She has a habit of doubling jumps and has done so at nearly every competition this season. She got away with it at Worlds because so many of the skaters were exhausted after a long, long season.

It has to be disheartening if you're Miki Ando, a former World Champion and the reigning GP Final silver medalist and reigning World bronze medalist to do 6 clean triples and lose a medal to a 3 triple Laura. Same goes for a clean 6 triple Cynthia Phaneuf.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Cynthia's Spiral was only a level 2 in the long but a level 4 in the short. This cost her the Bronze cause it would have given her another 2 points in the long.

Yes, I'd be kicking myself over that if I were her, but even still, Laura doesn't deserve to be on the podium with only 3 triples.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
As stated, I agree that if for no other reason than her age, the jury is properly still out on Mirai.

With regard to Yuna, on the other hand, while I agree that she didn't go intending to win silver (and I'm pretty sure that's not what Nadia meant either), I do agree with her that winning in Torino meant significantly more to Mao and considerably less to Yuna; that's just common sense.

It's also true that the Worlds mean less than the Olys, as evidenced by the fact that Mao was not quite as happy, and Yuna not really as sad, as they might have been, particularly when contrasted with their reactions at the Olympics, when the situations were reversed.

I also believe that if it were up to Yuna alone, she would probably not have shown up (which would have made her no different from a great many OGMs in recent history, because, frankly, the season is longer than in Kristi's day), but needed to get places for Korea next year.

Having said all that, however, once Yuna put all those considerations aside and got on the plane for Turin, did she want to win? Of course she did. Did she get beat by Mao fair and square? No question. Was the Worlds a meaningful win for Mao? Yes it was. Did Mao deliver strong performances? Yes she did. But going from there to somehow imply that Yuna was as hungry to win (or anywhere near) as Mao was, or that the Worlds win was somehow equivalent to the OGM, as some posters have been trying to spin it, is drinking the Koolaid. I think what Nadia was trying to say was that Yuna didn't feel any burning need to further prove herself at this juncture vis-a-vis Mao or anyone else in the field, particularly at the post-Oly Worlds. As hard as this may be for some to hear, that's also a truth that Mao herself realizes and is desperate to reverse. Which is why Mao was very public about wanting to go head to head with Yuna in the future AND break her records.

If we're talking about historical legacy, a comparison with other all-time greats (eg Kristi) and how she stacks up, that would be an interesting debate to have, and I would not say that Yuna has nothing left to prove from that perspective, although I believe a case can be plausibly made for Yuna even at this point in her career (not only titles but record-setting, jumps, etc etc), but I'll end this here.

You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Robeye
I also believe that if it were up to Yuna alone, she would probably not have shown up (which would have made her no different from a great many OGMs in recent history, because, frankly, the season is longer than in Kristi's day), but needed to get places for Korea next year.
We don't know the real reason, but probably it's like that.
Actually she deserves some respect just for coming. Not many would get to training after an Olympic gold medal and after those horrible days she had after Olympic games finished. She looked really tired even at the closing ceremony, but instead of resting she had to fly to Korea for 2 days and attend there some ****** meetings and stuff.

Having said all that, however, once Yuna put all those considerations aside and got on the plane for Turin, did she want to win? Of course she did. Did she get beat by Mao fair and square? No question. Was the Worlds a meaningful win for Mao? Yes it was. Did Mao deliver strong performances? Yes she did. But going from there to somehow imply that Yuna was as hungry to win (or anywhere near) as Mao was, or that the Worlds win was somehow equivalent to the OGM, as some posters have been trying to spin it, is drinking the Koolaid.
Well, as Yuna always states that she doesn't care too much about standings and her reaction always shows that, I think she just wanted to get the places for Korea and, maybe, she considers World an important competition anyway.
Anyway, it's stupid to say that she should have stayed at home instead of participating. Come on, she did it really good, everything was fair and it was a good competition. It's pretty stupid that some people actually want the best skater in the World not to come to compete :) Some people are amazing.
 

Moxie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
It has to be disheartening if you're Miki Ando, a former World Champion and the reigning GP Final silver medalist and reigning World bronze medalist to do 6 clean triples and lose a medal to a 3 triple Laura. Same goes for a clean 6 triple Cynthia Phaneuf.

Laura had a 9 pt lead in the SP! But I feel a bit bad for Mirai. She's was only 3 points off bronze.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
If I were a skater, I would want every color of medal. Now Yu-Na Kim has a World silver to add to her 2 bronzes and 1 gold! She should be really pleased! It was a treat seeing her compete when so many other Olympic champions have won gold and then ran. I agree with the gold and silver medal winners in the ladies at these championships. :)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If you don't like results, that's your opinion but you can't said that Yuna marks are inflated. That's not fair for Yuna and I don't like that.

Oh good lord. Yes You Can!! What you cannot debate is the actual result but you can totally debate whether or not the placement was deserved.
 

Moxie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

Yuna has never said anything of the sort! The girl won OGM and she was able to pull herself together well enough to come back and win silver. I don't see how this is a failure. Sheesh.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Laura had a 9 pt lead in the SP! But I feel a bit bad for Mirai. She's was only 3 points off bronze.

I know, but still I think Lepisto's PCS were too high for that LP skate. Phaneuf's and Ando's PCS were too low in the LP. It all hearkens back to you have to skate a clean SP to get the PCS you deserve in the LP.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Anyway, the real question is Yuna's future. Is she done with competitive skating?

We seem to know that Asada wishes to keep going.
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

Not downplaying history at all. If, using your scenario, Yuna retires now and Mao continues on and wins a bunch of titles (a long chain of ifs, by the way), sure, the situation will change. But we're not talking about 4 or even 2 years from now. We're talking about a title that Olympic champions traditionally skip, which Mao won with a score of 198. If both careers ended now, this title will only have a modest effect, IMO, on Mao's claim to equality with Yuna. I happen to think that Yuna is not retiring this year, but agree with you that we need to see how it all plays out.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
janetfan
You:
If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home.
Me:
Anyway, it's stupid to say that she should have stayed at home instead of participating. It's pretty stupid that some people actually want the best skater in the World not to come to compete.

And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps?
She is not starving herself according to her.
Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.
I don't understand, what the hell are you trying to say? Yuna will never be like Michelle in USA, because she's not American. For Koreans she is more than Michelle. So ***?

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.
What strikes me is that you seem to talk **** about Yuna after following her for so much time and you must know that what are you talking is not true.
It's up only to Yuna what she wants to do. She showed because she wanted to and she thought it will be ok, and it really went ok.

What the hell were you waiting for? Another 3 Worlds records?
 

Moxie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
^
Also, can we not toss around phrases like "starve herself"? Eating disorders are serious and terrible. To use them lightly belittles both ED sufferers and people who are naturally thin...
 

chachacha

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
janetfan

I don't understand, what the hell are you trying to say? Yuna will never be like Michelle in USA, because she's not American. For Koreans she is more than Michelle. So ***?

ew.. Queen Yuna is Queen Yuna. She doesn't need to be like anyone. BTW, I think no one wanna or want to be like a skater that never have OGM lol.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
janetfan
You:

Me:



She is not starving herself according to her.

I don't understand, what the hell are you trying to say? Yuna will never be like Michelle in USA, because she's not American. For Koreans she is more than Michelle. So ***?


What strikes me is that you seem to talk **** about Yuna after following her for so much time and you must know that what are you talking is not true.
It's up only to Yuna what she wants to do. She showed because she wanted to and she thought it will be ok, and it really went ok.

What the hell were you waiting for? Another 3 Worlds records?

I am just thinking of Yuna's own words, "I want to be a skater who is remembered." Yuna has said this more than once so I think she needs to continue to reach such a goal. I hope she continues because I am her fan.
But I am not sure if she can continue under the pressure she gets from her country and fans.

Michelle was on the World podium for what - nine straight years? 5 WCs, plus a few Silver and Bronze to go with two Olympic medals? If Yuna wants to be remebered like Michelle then she probably has to continue. But it is OK with me if she chooses to retire. She has won enough to be the best skater from 2007 to 2010.

Just saying if Mao continues - wins a more World medals /championships and a second Olympic medal then she will be the one remebered like Michelle. The one with the great long medal studded career.

This is just stuff to speculate about - it doesn't take away from Yuna - or add to Mao - since it is the future I am talking about.

For now - Yuna is in the Kristi - Tara - Oksana category to me. Two major titles - that is all. Mao also has two major titles right now.

This is not about who you dream about at night when you turn off the lights :cool:
it is about skaters and historical legacy. Kati has 2 OGM's and 4 WC's. Michelle has 5 WC's and 2 Olympic medals. If Yuna wants to be remebered like them - as an all-time great she probably needs to continue. If not, she will be remebered as a great jumper and the first Lady to master CoP. But 4 years from now - when Sochi is coming up I wonder if either Yuna or Mao will still be going and winning big medals and titles. The one who is will most likely join Kati and Michelle in the history books. The other will be remebered as a good champion of her era - but not necessarily as an all time great.

That is what I am talking about - not sure what the h... you are whining about? :think:
 
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aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
ew.. Queen Yuna is Queen Yuna. She doesn't need to be like anyone. BTW, I think no one wanna or want to be like a skater that never have OGM lol.

I would. She's had many other successes on and off the ice.

And there is no need to toss an "ew" around.
 
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Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
chachacha
Queen Yuna is Queen Yuna. She doesn't need to be like anyone.
Exactly. That's why I don't understand that "legacy" ********.

What really strikes, is why the hell that person is saying all this. He must know that Yuna never was going only for medals or points as well as she was always very responsible and always tried her best. That's why she came to the Worlds even after winning the OGM. She failed because she made mistakes previously and she admitted that. There also were some difficult circumstances for her, we all know how much better she can do. But instead he talks about some excuses and other crap.

I don't get it. Changing love to hate so easily and fast - that's what really striking here. Yuna is a human and she can make mistakes. But to come to compete - is NOT a mistake in any case! We should be grateful to her that she came at cost of her nerves. She made the competition much more interesting and I'm really happy about the result as Yuna herself is.

There is just no logic in his words, he really disappoints me. I'm sad now because of this.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Yes, I was being ironic - but let's consider that Yuna wants to be remebered as one of the greatest skaters of all time.

Yu-na has never said this. She has always said that she wants to be a skater who is remembered. Period. Whenever she's expanded on that, she says that she wants to be a skater who is remembered and loved like Michelle Kwan. That says a lot about Yu-na, and a lot about Michelle, that she was able to influence and inspire a skater in a country with no legacy of great figure skating whatsoever.
 
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