Ladies - LP | Page 62 | Golden Skate

Ladies - LP

kalle

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Yes, thanks for the birds-eye report. I think there are some things that don't make it through the TV which impact how those of us at home may see and judge the skaters, such as speed/flow across the ice.

Very true!
I expected Yuna to be way above the others in term of flow and speed over the ice but not at all..Of course, she is a reference but I was amazed to see Laura, Mirai, Cynthia and Akiko "flying" around the ice with nice transitions too..
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Recently, Joannie Rochette, Rachael Flatt, and Alena Leonova have done 7 triples LPs too.

As silverlake22 mentioned, the question was about skaters who managed to come up with a way of doing 7 triples without a triple-triple. Under the current Zayak rules 7 triples is impossible without a triple Axel, a triple-triple, or a 2A-triple combo.

In 1998 Michelle did not recover from her broken foot in time to train her triple-triple combo. So she had to do eight jumping passes to get the full content in.

She also used 8 jumping passes (7 triples) to edge out Lu Chen (6 triples) for the 1996 World Championship

janetfan said:
Was wondering - did Lu-Chen have a few 7 triple programs to her credit without a 3x3?

And what about Irina?.

I don't think so. Lulu did accomplish some 7 triple programs (at 1991 Worlds for instance), but always with a 3T/3T combo. She did 5 triples at 1994 Olympics and 5 in winning the 1995 World Championship.

I am pretty sure that all of Slutskaya's 7-triple performances came after the "seven jumping pass rule" was in place.

In comparing Kwan to Slutskaya, I think we should take note of the fact that Michelle was a young prodigy, while Irina was something of a late bloomer. By the time Irina really got it going, round about 2001-02, Michelle was already on the back slope of her career (still producing memorable programs, though.)
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
About the bolded sentence, no, I do not like it. I do not like it at all. :cry: What kind of sport awards points in today's championship for accomplishments six months ago?

I do believe that Yu-na Kim received higher scores for Interpretation of this year's so-so Gershwin because she did a good job of interpreting last years wonderful LP music. :eek:hwell:

I believe she got higher scores in Choreography at this competition, not because she did a good job of delivering the intent of the choreograpphy in this performance but becasue she had done so at Eric Bompard.

This is a terrible flaw and weakness in the ISU judging system, IMHO.

Mao Asada scored higher in program components than the youthful Mirai Nagasu at the Olympics, despite some technical mistakes, because she skated better, with respect to the criteria for the components. I have no quarrel with that. It is the feeling that "we should give high marks to a skater because we know she is really better that what we just saw" -- no, I can't go along with that at all.
MM. I've never read any of your retorts to go against the judges. You normally just roll out the protocols and say that's what happened.

I do agree with you and happy you can disagree with the judges.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
MM. I've never read any of your retorts to go against the judges. You normally just roll out the protocols and say that's what happened.

I am so misunderstood. :cry: :laugh: Posters come on board and ask, what happened? why did so-and-so get such a low Transitions score? What does the rule say about thus-and-so?

So I try to do my civic duty and look up the answers to these questions.

That doesn't mean I agree or disagree with anybody. Just trying to aid the discussion by reporting the facts. ;)

ImaginaryPogue said:
I didn't think sequences counted.

Yes, I meant you can't come up to 7 triples unless you have a triple-triple combo or sequence, or a double Axel/triple combo or sequence, or a triple Axel. Sasha Cohen and Joannie Rochette are two skaters that used a 3S sequence to squeeze in their seventh triple.

Michelle actually did eight separate individual passes at both 1996 Worlds and 1998 Olympics (before they changed the rules to allow only seven.)
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
and by reporting the facts, you do not have any comments about disagreeing with what the judges scored. I wish we knew who the protocolers are by name.
 

nddandy

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
and by reporting the facts, you do not have any comments about disagreeing with what the judges scored.

You make that sound like an accusation. :laugh: Am I a bad person if I decline to comment on whether I agree or disagree with something ?

Anyway...

On the issue of whether technical mistakes ought to affect the program components, I think it is worth considering the opposite situation, too.

Choreographers insert highlight elements strategically into the program to match musical climaxes. When a skater hits that big gorgeous quad BANG! right on the money, that can make or break the choreography.

IMO the choreography and interpretation marks should not given for what the coach and choreographer put on paper. It is up to the skater to deliver the goods. This cannot be done if technique is lacking.

A good case in point is Mirai’s Carmen LP performance at Worlds. Right at the most dramatic musical crescendo, Mirai does an Ina Bauer into a double Axel. If she hits it with panache, that definitely contributes to the overall effectiveness of the choreography.

If she falls :cry: the choreo, interpretation and performance turn to mush.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..

I agree. Every time Mao beats Yuna, it's because Yuna makes significant mistakes. A perfect Yuna will beat a perfect Mao every time. Also, every time Mao beats Yuna, it's by a few points, whereas Yuna has beaten Mao by over 20 points multiple times.
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..

Yes!

I realized the same thing as I watched Yuna in her FS and compared her performance to those from her group and the last one. The other skaters looked so much the same to me both in their technique and their approach to "artistry". Even with her mistakes, it was clear that Yuna was in a league of her own. So different from the other skaters. She brings ladies' figure skating to another level. I thought her first place finish in the FS was wholly deserved.
 

youtubo

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
I felt sad when Tara kept saying Mao was the shadow of Yuna and the underdog from her entire senior career. But im glad she won this one.
 
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chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..

I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.
 

hellcat

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.

I agree on this. This Mao's performance was defintely better than Olympic on her interpretation of music at least to me. That's not even considering those mistakes she made in her LP. Consider she didn't make those mistakes, I'll still take this LP over LP in Olympic.
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.

The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other ---just like how the other ladies skated. There seemed to be no flow (like her jumps seemed to be separate element from her spiral for instance) or the connection with the music. I'm glad that she challenged herself though by trying a different type of program this season to expand her range.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other ---just like how the other ladies skated. There seemed to be no flow (like her jumps seemed to be separate element from her spiral for instance) or the connection with the music. I'm glad that she challenged herself though by trying a different type of program this season to expand her range.

That's your own opinion IMAO:rolleye: Um... jumps are a separate element from the spiral, even in Yuna's program. :sheesh: And about Yuna beating Mao by 20pts; didn't that only start to happen in 2009? Was it because Yuna was underrrated before or was it because Mao started to enter a slump and the judges didn't like her programs? :think: I think it was the latter. Anyways, it's totally reasonable that us Mao fans and even some non fans are a little confused about the scores, considering that there are still some people complaining about the placements and scoring from 2008 Worlds.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other..

I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

I thought it was outstanding.
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

Did she really? The music itself is difficult to interpret. I think it would probably be more suited for men. The skating is supposed to exude strength and power. I don't it was accomplished because her skating seemed too soft and lyrical.
 

brianjyw

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
About the bolded sentence, no, I do not like it. I do not like it at all. :cry: What kind of sport awards points in today's championship for accomplishments six months ago?

I do believe that Yu-na Kim received higher scores for Interpretation of this year's so-so Gershwin because she did a good job of interpreting last years wonderful LP music. :eek:hwell:

I believe she got higher scores in Choreography at this competition, not because she did a good job of delivering the intent of the choreograpphy in this performance but becasue she had done so at Eric Bompard.

This is a terrible flaw and weakness in the ISU judging system, IMHO.

Mao Asada scored higher in program components than the youthful Mirai Nagasu at the Olympics, despite some technical mistakes, because she skated better, with respect to the criteria for the components. I have no quarrel with that. It is the feeling that "we should give high marks to a skater because we know she is really better that what we just saw" -- no, I can't go along with that at all.

What do you mean by "youthful Mirai?" Are you suggesting that it is OK for Mao to get higher PCS score than Mirai just because Mirai is youthful?

If you can claim that Mao skated better despite the two mistakes at the Olympics than clean Mirai, don't you think the same logic should be also applied to Yuna as well - Yuna staked better, with respect to the criteria for the components than Mao at the worlds?

When you stated "Mao staked better" you apparently believe that Mao's mistakes should not affect her PCS. But it appears that you think Yuna's mistakes should affect her PCS. If so, don't you think you are hypocritical?
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

I thought it was outstanding.

That is exactly how I felt watching her program. :agree:
 
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