Ladies - LP

[Sackie]

Cynthia's Spiral was only a level 2 in the long but a level 4 in the short. This cost her the Bronze cause it would have given her another 2 points in the long.

[museksk8r]

Why should Laura have to learn anything? At the rate she's going, she could double ALL her jumps and still make the podium.

Sorry, but I am super unimpressed with Laura. She has a habit of doubling jumps and has done so at nearly every competition this season. She got away with it at Worlds because so many of the skaters were exhausted after a long, long season.

It has to be disheartening if you're Miki Ando, a former World Champion and the reigning GP Final silver medalist and reigning World bronze medalist to do 6 clean triples and lose a medal to a 3 triple Laura. Same goes for a clean 6 triple Cynthia Phaneuf.

[museksk8r]

Cynthia's Spiral was only a level 2 in the long but a level 4 in the short. This cost her the Bronze cause it would have given her another 2 points in the long.

Yes, I'd be kicking myself over that if I were her, but even still, Laura doesn't deserve to be on the podium with only 3 triples.

[janetfan]

As stated, I agree that if for no other reason than her age, the jury is properly still out on Mirai.

With regard to Yuna, on the other hand, while I agree that she didn't go intending to win silver (and I'm pretty sure that's not what Nadia meant either), I do agree with her that winning in Torino meant significantly more to Mao and considerably less to Yuna; that's just common sense.

It's also true that the Worlds mean less than the Olys, as evidenced by the fact that Mao was not quite as happy, and Yuna not really as sad, as they might have been, particularly when contrasted with their reactions at the Olympics, when the situations were reversed.

I also believe that if it were up to Yuna alone, she would probably not have shown up (which would have made her no different from a great many OGMs in recent history, because, frankly, the season is longer than in Kristi's day), but needed to get places for Korea next year.

Having said all that, however, once Yuna put all those considerations aside and got on the plane for Turin, did she want to win? Of course she did. Did she get beat by Mao fair and square? No question. Was the Worlds a meaningful win for Mao? Yes it was. Did Mao deliver strong performances? Yes she did. But going from there to somehow imply that Yuna was as hungry to win (or anywhere near) as Mao was, or that the Worlds win was somehow equivalent to the OGM, as some posters have been trying to spin it, is drinking the Koolaid. I think what Nadia was trying to say was that Yuna didn't feel any burning need to further prove herself at this juncture vis-a-vis Mao or anyone else in the field, particularly at the post-Oly Worlds. As hard as this may be for some to hear, that's also a truth that Mao herself realizes and is desperate to reverse. Which is why Mao was very public about wanting to go head to head with Yuna in the future AND break her records.

If we're talking about historical legacy, a comparison with other all-time greats (eg Kristi) and how she stacks up, that would be an interesting debate to have, and I would not say that Yuna has nothing left to prove from that perspective, although I believe a case can be plausibly made for Yuna even at this point in her career (not only titles but record-setting, jumps, etc etc), but I'll end this here.

You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

[Daniel5555]

Robeye

I also believe that if it were up to Yuna alone, she would probably not have shown up (which would have made her no different from a great many OGMs in recent history, because, frankly, the season is longer than in Kristi's day), but needed to get places for Korea next year.

We don't know the real reason, but probably it's like that.
Actually she deserves some respect just for coming. Not many would get to training after an Olympic gold medal and after those horrible days she had after Olympic games finished. She looked really tired even at the closing ceremony, but instead of resting she had to fly to Korea for 2 days and attend there some ****** meetings and stuff.

Having said all that, however, once Yuna put all those considerations aside and got on the plane for Turin, did she want to win? Of course she did. Did she get beat by Mao fair and square? No question. Was the Worlds a meaningful win for Mao? Yes it was. Did Mao deliver strong performances? Yes she did. But going from there to somehow imply that Yuna was as hungry to win (or anywhere near) as Mao was, or that the Worlds win was somehow equivalent to the OGM, as some posters have been trying to spin it, is drinking the Koolaid.

Well, as Yuna always states that she doesn't care too much about standings and her reaction always shows that, I think she just wanted to get the places for Korea and, maybe, she considers World an important competition anyway.
Anyway, it's stupid to say that she should have stayed at home instead of participating. Come on, she did it really good, everything was fair and it was a good competition. It's pretty stupid that some people actually want the best skater in the World not to come to compete Some people are amazing.

[Moxie]

It has to be disheartening if you're Miki Ando, a former World Champion and the reigning GP Final silver medalist and reigning World bronze medalist to do 6 clean triples and lose a medal to a 3 triple Laura. Same goes for a clean 6 triple Cynthia Phaneuf.

Laura had a 9 pt lead in the SP! But I feel a bit bad for Mirai. She's was only 3 points off bronze.

[museksk8r]

If I were a skater, I would want every color of medal. Now Yu-Na Kim has a World silver to add to her 2 bronzes and 1 gold! She should be really pleased! It was a treat seeing her compete when so many other Olympic champions have won gold and then ran. I agree with the gold and silver medal winners in the ladies at these championships.

[chachacha]

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK

GRRR>>>pathetic. Stop jealous and attacking Queen Yuna. She has left her footprints where no one has ever gone. So don't deny it period.

[R.D.]

If you don't like results, that's your opinion but you can't said that Yuna marks are inflated. That's not fair for Yuna and I don't like that.

Oh good lord. Yes You Can!! What you cannot debate is the actual result but you can totally debate whether or not the placement was deserved.

[Moxie]

You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

Yuna has never said anything of the sort! The girl won OGM and she was able to pull herself together well enough to come back and win silver. I don't see how this is a failure. Sheesh.

[museksk8r]

Laura had a 9 pt lead in the SP! But I feel a bit bad for Mirai. She's was only 3 points off bronze.

I know, but still I think Lepisto's PCS were too high for that LP skate. Phaneuf's and Ando's PCS were too low in the LP. It all hearkens back to you have to skate a clean SP to get the PCS you deserve in the LP.

[R.D.]

Anyway, the real question is Yuna's future. Is she done with competitive skating?

We seem to know that Asada wishes to keep going.

[Robeye]

You make good points but you seem to want to downplay history for the sake of propping up Yuna.

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home. OK - easier said than done coz of politics, etc. And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps? I suspect not much longer.

Perspective is perspective. It doesn't come from our exchange - but a few years from now when fans look back and re-evauate.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

So, it is fine to say Yuna had nothing to prove and this did not mean so much to her. Not a problems for me as I always respect Tara, Sarah and other skaters with 1-2 major titles.

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

Not downplaying history at all. If, using your scenario, Yuna retires now and Mao continues on and wins a bunch of titles (a long chain of ifs, by the way), sure, the situation will change. But we're not talking about 4 or even 2 years from now. We're talking about a title that Olympic champions traditionally skip, which Mao won with a score of 198. If both careers ended now, this title will only have a modest effect, IMO, on Mao's claim to equality with Yuna. I happen to think that Yuna is not retiring this year, but agree with you that we need to see how it all plays out.

[Daniel5555]

janetfan
You:

If Yuna did not want to win then she should have stayed home.

Me:

Anyway, it's stupid to say that she should have stayed at home instead of participating. It's pretty stupid that some people actually want the best skater in the World not to come to compete.

And how long can Yuna starve herself to keep at such a light weight that she can still make her jumps?

She is not starving herself according to her.

Mao not winning in Vancouver may have the same effect on her that it had on Michelle.
Yuna did NOT look prepared to do her best here - and now some will wonder hif we have seen her best? Mao appears to be ready to continue and win more WC's and not sure about Yuna.

Of course this is speculation - but should Yuna retire now - except for Korean fans - she will go down like a Tara, sarah and Shiz. Wondeful skater who won OGM and one WC.

Mao , a few years from now may be approaching Michelle's records - with two Olympic medals a possibilty along with 4-5 WC's.

I don't understand, what the hell are you trying to say? Yuna will never be like Michelle in USA, because she's not American. For Koreans she is more than Michelle. So ***?

Just strikes me that if it is a legacy Yuna wants - she needs to continue because it seems Mao is not going away and will surpass Yuna's records rather easily in the next season or two.

What strikes me is that you seem to talk **** about Yuna after following her for so much time and you must know that what are you talking is not true.
It's up only to Yuna what she wants to do. She showed because she wanted to and she thought it will be ok, and it really went ok.

What the hell were you waiting for? Another 3 Worlds records?

[Moxie]

^
Also, can we not toss around phrases like "starve herself"? Eating disorders are serious and terrible. To use them lightly belittles both ED sufferers and people who are naturally thin...