Ladies - LP

[Figure88]

Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..

Yes!

I realized the same thing as I watched Yuna in her FS and compared her performance to those from her group and the last one. The other skaters looked so much the same to me both in their technique and their approach to "artistry". Even with her mistakes, it was clear that Yuna was in a league of her own. So different from the other skaters. She brings ladies' figure skating to another level. I thought her first place finish in the FS was wholly deserved.

[youtubo]

I felt sad when Tara kept saying Mao was the shadow of Yuna and the underdog from her entire senior career. But im glad she won this one.

[chloepoco]

Honestly, Yu na and Mao are in different leagues, and I'm so shocked that many of you guys do not even realize that.

Mao's program was dull, wierd and depressing, and she is no "Yagudin' she is more suitable with light and pleasant programs. Her artistry lacks quite a bit to perform heavy musics like Bells of Moscow...She will do much better next season with the program that will suit her brightness and lightness on the ice. I am expecting her to do better next year!


Yu-na had a good program, a program that no other skaters in the world can perform. Her difficult entrance to her jumps and speed in and out of jumps are just flawless, Yes she fell once and singled her 2A, but figure skating is so much more than doing Jumps.

Mao is a good skater, there is no denying of that, but Yu na is one of the greatest ever, both technically and artistically, she is the 'total package' and until this season, she was underestimated by the judges ...do you guys remember 2008 worlds? how Mao won gold? and how Caro got silver over Yu na? I'm not saying Mao did anything wrong but that's how it used to be and now yu-na's finally being recognized by the judges..

I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.

[hellcat]

I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.

I agree on this. This Mao's performance was defintely better than Olympic on her interpretation of music at least to me. That's not even considering those mistakes she made in her LP. Consider she didn't make those mistakes, I'll still take this LP over LP in Olympic.

[Figure88]

I certainly did not think Mao's program was dull, weird or depressing. It was different, and there's nothing wrong with that; she made it work. And as far as this event, I don't think Yuna had it over Mao technically or artistically.

The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other ---just like how the other ladies skated. There seemed to be no flow (like her jumps seemed to be separate element from her spiral for instance) or the connection with the music. I'm glad that she challenged herself though by trying a different type of program this season to expand her range.

[miki88]

The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other ---just like how the other ladies skated. There seemed to be no flow (like her jumps seemed to be separate element from her spiral for instance) or the connection with the music. I'm glad that she challenged herself though by trying a different type of program this season to expand her range.

That's your own opinion IMAO Um... jumps are a separate element from the spiral, even in Yuna's program. :sheesh: And about Yuna beating Mao by 20pts; didn't that only start to happen in 2009? Was it because Yuna was underrrated before or was it because Mao started to enter a slump and the judges didn't like her programs? I think it was the latter. Anyways, it's totally reasonable that us Mao fans and even some non fans are a little confused about the scores, considering that there are still some people complaining about the placements and scoring from 2008 Worlds.

[Mathman]

The problem with Mao's performance was that it felt "disjointed" somehow. I don't know if it was the choreography or her skating in general (probably both), but it seemed more like she was just checking off one element after the other..

I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

I thought it was outstanding.

[Figure88]

I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

Did she really? The music itself is difficult to interpret. I think it would probably be more suited for men. The skating is supposed to exude strength and power. I don't it was accomplished because her skating seemed too soft and lyrical.

[brianjyw]

About the bolded sentence, no, I do not like it. I do not like it at all. What kind of sport awards points in today's championship for accomplishments six months ago?

I do believe that Yu-na Kim received higher scores for Interpretation of this year's so-so Gershwin because she did a good job of interpreting last years wonderful LP music.

I believe she got higher scores in Choreography at this competition, not because she did a good job of delivering the intent of the choreograpphy in this performance but becasue she had done so at Eric Bompard.

This is a terrible flaw and weakness in the ISU judging system, IMHO.

Mao Asada scored higher in program components than the youthful Mirai Nagasu at the Olympics, despite some technical mistakes, because she skated better, with respect to the criteria for the components. I have no quarrel with that. It is the feeling that "we should give high marks to a skater because we know she is really better that what we just saw" -- no, I can't go along with that at all.

What do you mean by "youthful Mirai?" Are you suggesting that it is OK for Mao to get higher PCS score than Mirai just because Mirai is youthful?

If you can claim that Mao skated better despite the two mistakes at the Olympics than clean Mirai, don't you think the same logic should be also applied to Yuna as well - Yuna staked better, with respect to the criteria for the components than Mao at the worlds?

When you stated "Mao staked better" you apparently believe that Mao's mistakes should not affect her PCS. But it appears that you think Yuna's mistakes should affect her PCS. If so, don't you think you are hypocritical?

[chloepoco]

I felt just the opposite about this performance. I thought for the first time this season that Asada achieved mastery over that dramatic music and was able to deliver a coherent program.

I thought it was outstanding.

That is exactly how I felt watching her program.

[yunasashafan]

Hmm. I am trying to think of who these bunches of skaters might be, who have done a 7-triple program with no triple-triple. I believe that the only current skater who can do it is Akiko Shizuki.

Michelle did 7-triple programs eleven times in major competitions in her career. I am not so familiar with the records of Asada and Kim, so I am not sure how many times those skaters completed 7 triples. Not recently, I believe.

I've been trying to stay out of the craziness that is this thread. I just want to point out, though, that when Michelle did 7-triple programs, skaters were allowed up to 8 jumping passes (including the mandatory double axel). Skaters these days have only 7 passes. If you take out one pass for the double axel, that leaves six. Which means that unless you can do a triple-triple, the maximum number of triples you can get in is six.

[ayayukiituka]

Did she really? The music itself is difficult to interpret. I think it would probably be more suited for men. The skating is supposed to exude strength and power. I don't it was accomplished because her skating seemed too soft and lyrical.

Maybe Mathman didn't compare to someone else but to old Mao herself.
i agree that Mao's skating is too soft and lyrical. however her own emotion in Bell program at this event more than in Olympic.
i was so much impressed because she was in the dark music. Though Bell cannot be a very right choice for her,she did it.
I'm sure that this makes her new level whatever music she will choose

[brianjyw]

MM. I've never read any of your retorts to go against the judges. You normally just roll out the protocols and say that's what happened.

I do agree with you and happy you can disagree with the judges.

People have their rights to disagree with the judges and I respect that. However, they should not have double standards when they disagree with the judges. Unfortunately, some of posters do have double standards and have been applying them to bash a player. They pretend they don't but it is cleary obvious they do. I can't stand a hypocrite.

[prettykeys]

People have their rights to disagree with the judges and I respect that. However, they should not have double standards when they disagree with the judges. Unfortunately, some of posters do have double standards and have been applying them to bash a player. They pretend they don't but it is cleary obvious they do. I can't stand a hypocrite.

Jeez, chill out. You're calling the wrong person hypocritical. Mathman was only saying that he believes despite technical mistakes, a skater CAN do better in the Program Components than a clean skater (e.g. Mao vs. Mirai at the Olympics--Mirai is a bit too young to be the best Carmen.)

However, he is saying that YuNa did not perform her best at this World's, and that the PCS should have reflected that (more?) It's his opinion, but he's not being inconsistent.

Get a grip on your defensive impulses and try to understand what people are saying...

[Mathman]

I've been trying to stay out of the craziness that is this thread. I just want to point out, though, that when Michelle did 7-triple programs, skaters were allowed up to 8 jumping passes (including the mandatory double axel). Skaters these days have only 7 passes. If you take out one pass for the double axel, that leaves six. Which means that unless you can do a triple-triple, the maximum number of triples you can get in is six.

I believe I mentioned this in all of my many posts on this topic. For instance in post # 1225 above:

Yes, I meant you can't come up to 7 triples unless you have a triple-triple combo or sequence, or a double Axel/triple combo or sequence, or a triple Axel....

Michelle actually did eight separate individual passes at both 1996 Worlds and 1998 Olympics (before they changed the rules to allow only seven.)

And 1222:

...the question was about skaters who managed to come up with a way of doing 7 triples without a triple-triple. Under the current Zayak rules 7 triples is impossible without a triple Axel, a triple-triple, or a 2A-triple combo.