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Thread: Ladies - LP

  1. #1291
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginask8s View Post
    Yuna had a "Ive fallen and I cant get up" moment.
    haha. Coaches often teach you to get up ASAP and do the checking position to minimize the previous moment. But she looked tired towards the end and didn't bother to do so? That moment reminded me of Johnny Weir 2006 Worlds, where the commentator was like "The awaited moment for Johnny Weir finally came, the end of the program." That was hilarious.

  2. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianjyw View Post
    This is just observation. It appears that Mirai going into a double axel from an Ina Bauer is a little bit different from how Yuna does it. I believe Mira takes a couple of steps between an Ina Bauer and a double exel while Yuna does not take any steps.
    I think the right way to handle a situation this situation is like this. Yu-na gets positive GOE on her jump element for "unusual entry," while Mirai's Ina Bauer just counts toward the Transitions mark.

    The one area where Yu-na absolutely cannot be beat is in the GOEs for jump elements. She always picks up an extra seven or eight points for the quality of her jumps.

    On the other hand, Mirai's element punctuates a very dramatic musical highlight, so I would not be opposed to giving her credit in Interpretation also. About choreography more generally, I think one reason why there is a lot of disagreement is that David Wilson is really a "choreographers' choreographer." You have to be something of an artist yourself to appreciate some of the things he has done (for Jeff Buttle, for instance.)

    If you skate to Carmen the audience is on your side from the first familiar note. If you essay a more sophisticated piece, you have to earn the attention of the audience.

  3. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think the right way to handle a situation this situation is like this. Yu-na gets positive GOE on her jump element for "unusual entry," while Mirai's Ina Bauer just counts toward the Transitions mark.
    ITA.

    The one area where Yu-na absolutely cannot be beat is in the GOEs for jump elements. She always picks up an extra seven or eight points for the quality of her jumps.
    There might be some people offended by "absolutely cannot be beat."
    On the other hand, Mirai's element punctuates a very dramatic musical highlight, so I would not be opposed to giving her credit in Interpretation also.
    Very good analysis!

    About choreography more generally, I think one reason why there is a lot of disagreement is that David Wilson is really a "choreographers' choreographer." You have to be something of an artist yourself to appreciate some of the things he has done (for Jeff Buttle, for instance.)
    Agree. This might be one of the reasons why some people belittle Yuna's performance because it doesn't move them.

    If you skate to Carmen the audience is on your side from the first familiar note. If you essay a more sophisticated piece, you have to earn the attention of the audience.
    ITA.

  4. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    haha. Coaches often teach you to get up ASAP and do the checking position to minimize the previous moment. But she looked tired towards the end and didn't bother to do so? That moment reminded me of Johnny Weir 2006 Worlds, where the commentator was like "The awaited moment for Johnny Weir finally came, the end of the program." That was hilarious.
    I've watched the fall several times to see if your claim is true. My conclusion is there were no ways for her to get back to her position as fast as you think she should after the fall. Please watch the same jump she did at the Olympics. After the jump she had to do a very sophisticated and artistic transition into a feisty charge to sync with the dynamic transition of the music.

    She had to just wait for the right moment to synch to the rapid change in rhythm.

    If she was as tired as you claimed, she couldn't have succeeded in doing her magnificent triple lutz after the fall. Her usual speed and strength made it possible.

  5. #1295
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    Hype

    Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).

  6. #1296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo1 View Post
    Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).
    Apparently the judges don't think so.

    She fails to excite me on TV. But maybe it's different seeing her live. However, that's an opportunity that has not presented itself to me, not yet anyway.

  7. #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    About the bolded sentence, no, I do not like it. I do not like it at all. What kind of sport awards points in today's championship for accomplishments six months ago?
    =
    The reason why I stated that past pcs performance count is because I believe PCS is kind of fixed during a season once a program comes out if we assume that a technical mistake has a very limited effect on PCS and if a player does not change his/her program dramatically during a season.

    If would be really crazy if a player gets a very high PCS at a competition and a very low PCS at another one for the same program.

    On the other hand, TES can fluctuate a lot depending on how well a player performs even during the same season.

    Sorry about the confusion.

    Edit was done to correct some typo
    Last edited by brianjyw; 03-29-2010 at 02:32 PM.

  8. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel5555 View Post
    While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.
    The sport is a judging sport so things like that will always be different for each fan. I thought she looked uninterested and absolutely no feelings came out of her. If you're looking for a determined performance I would look to Mao.

  9. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo1 View Post
    Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).
    Have you seen her skate live? I think that might change your mind....she is SO fast and her jumps are HUGE . And she's just so beautiful and has great facial expressions .

  10. #1300
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel5555 View Post
    Mathman
    I think I have to disagree about Yuna's PCS being too high.
    While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.
    I think this is a valid point. One of the frustrations with Mao this season is that she has lost or sacrificed that light, happy quality. (Tarasova said something like "suffer now for glory later" and Mao seems to have taken that literally.) To be fair, her programs this season also didn't call for happy faces. Whereas Yu Na has acquired the ability to do amazing things with seeming ease, and even delight. It's really extraordinary and deserves the high scores. I very much hope that next season Mao's programs give her a chance to regain that beautiful and joyous flow that she used to be known for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Have you seen her skate live? I think that might change your mind....she is SO fast and her jumps are HUGE . And she's just so beautiful and has great facial expressions .
    Speed can be different live. But facial expressions I think you can see better close up.

  12. #1302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I think this is a valid point. One of the frustrations with Mao this season is that she has lost or sacrificed that light, happy quality. (Tarasova said something like "suffer now for glory later" and Mao seems to have taken that literally.) To be fair, her programs this season also didn't call for happy faces. Whereas Yu Na has acquired the ability to do amazing things with seeming ease, and even delight. It's really extraordinary and deserves the high scores. I very much hope that next season Mao's programs give her a chance to regain that beautiful and joyous flow that she used to be known for.
    Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.

  13. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norpido View Post
    Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.
    Or we could just say that the facial expression should match the music? I think what Spun Silver is saying is that Yu-na took command of her music and interpreted it very well while w/Mao, while drama is good, if it's overwhelming you, then it's just... overwhelming lols. It all depends on your music and the look you're going for. If you're skating to joyful music, skate joyfully. If you're skating to more dramatic music, really let your inner drama queen/king (? lols) shine and attack it. And Mao does have a wonderful, light, airy quality to her skating that was probably why she struggled w/Bells.

  14. #1304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norpido View Post
    Your opinion has that "happy faces" and "beautiful and joyous flow" is superior to drama. I really like the drama in Mao's piece and I hope not that happy faces is something that has any hand in the scoring.
    I'm one of very few people who actually like Mao's LP music. In case of facial expressions, Mao has almost monotone expression: the same throughout, but Yu Na has several different expressions. However, I don't think this facial expression matter is not as big as jump quality, transitions, spins and etc. Mao focused on her 3A so much that she gave away a lot of points in other elements. I hope she gets a great full time coach soon. Why doesn't she want to move outside of Japan for full time training?

  15. #1305
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    "Bells" is a very difficult piece to pull off, because it's strange and empty feeling. Therefore, it draws extra focus to what the skater is actually doing. That's probably why the program won't work if Mao makes even one mistake because it becomes quite disruptive. Whereas, for a more pleasing type of music, little mistakes can be more tolerant. Also, I think why the music piece and Mao doesn't fit is because of her style of skating. Mao has always had a quiet presence on the ice. However, "Bells" needs a skater to have a larger than life presence on the ice to effectively pull it off. In other words, he/she needs to be a diva. However, it's pretty hard for anyone to picture Mao as a diva. I also watched Jeffrey Buttle's interpretation of this music and I didn't think he pulled it off either because he doesn't have that diva presence. I think this music could work on Yagudin or Plushenko because their egos were big enough.

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