View Poll Results: Who should have taken the bronze medal?

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  • Laura Lepisto?

    58 21.32%
  • Carolina Kostner?

    36 13.24%
  • Cynthia Phaneuf?

    53 19.49%
  • Miki Ando?

    107 39.34%
  • Other

    18 6.62%
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Thread: Who should have taken the bronze on the ladies event?

  1. #91
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    I would say Miki for bronze. When you look at it overall Miki only messed up her combination in the SP, a sloppy spin and a downgrade on the third jump (2Lo) in a sequence, but landed 6 triples in her LP. Laura on the other hand didn't even skate a Junior-level LP.... 3 triples and all doubles?

    What worries me is the idea that we might be seeing A LOT more 3T+3T combinations in the upcoming seasons.... what's the point of trying a harder combo (like 3F+3T or 3Lz+3T) or even a 3F or Lz + 2T or Lo when the 3T+3T gives a higher point total with GOE in consideration? It racks up the GOE's and, in my opinion from skating myself, is actually easier and more fail-safe than doing a 3F or 3Lz in combination with a 2T or 2Lo?

    This competition proves that the old saying that "the SP can't win the competition for you, but it can lose it" with CoP is far from the truth. Mao and Yu-Na both taking gold or silver was pretty much a given... I'm sure most skaters had the mentality that Bronze would be their Gold medal. So in this case, the SP did win it for Laura, even with a subpar junior-ish LP.

    I can definitely say this now.... I will be very upset next season to see skaters start giving up on their 3Lz and 3F combos (who don't have it secured with a second triple) in favor of the 3T+3T... SP layouts will all start looking like 3T+3T, 3Lz or 3F, (and of course) 2A.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethissoawesome View Post
    I can definitely say this now.... I will be very upset next season to see skaters start giving up on their 3Lz and 3F combos (who don't have it secured with a second triple) in favor of the 3T+3T... SP layouts will all start looking like 3T+3T, 3Lz or 3F, (and of course) 2A.
    Why is that such a problem? A 3t-3t is worth more than a 3lz-2t and is a triple-triple combination and therefore considered more difficult. Also, doing a 3t-3t assures that you won't receive edge calls on that combination. I don't really have problems with the 3t-3t, it's still a triple-triple.

  3. #93
    Custom Title MikiAndoFan#1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Why is that such a problem? A 3t-3t is worth more than a 3lz-2t and is a triple-triple combination and therefore considered more difficult. Also, doing a 3t-3t assures that you won't receive edge calls on that combination. I don't really have problems with the 3t-3t, it's still a triple-triple.
    I agree.


  4. #94
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Why is that such a problem? A 3t-3t is worth more than a 3lz-2t and is a triple-triple combination and therefore considered more difficult. Also, doing a 3t-3t assures that you won't receive edge calls on that combination. I don't really have problems with the 3t-3t, it's still a triple-triple.
    The issue I have with it is that it will start making things very repetitive and won't encourage trying more difficult things and taking risks... it's a step backwards. Just because something is worth more added together doesn't make it more difficult either... I learned a 3T+3T way before I could do a 3F+2T or 3Lz+2T, and even longer to try a 2Lo at the end. In combinations, the first jump really sets the tone for things... and the harder the first jump is, the more difficult it is to put in combination. Doing a 3Lz, the unnatural kind of counter-rotated take off is a LOT harder than simply going with the flow of your edge and sticking your toepick back for the 3T. Trying to hold the position to take off into a loop jump afterwards is also exponentially harder (and more exhausting) than extending back and picking again... heck, it can even safe a shaky landing sometimes. There is a reason skaters usually order their 3 jump sequences into 3?+2T+2Lo instead of 3?+2Lo+2T... it's a lot easier to hold that position after the easier 2T than the first more difficult jump. Starting to ramble... again, the main reason is variety and seeing skaters try to push themselves to take risks (and the joy of watching it when it happens) rather than resort to the easy way out. To me, it's similar to skaters that have their programs choreographed and planned to leave out weak jumps or jumps they just can't do when (in my opinion) a top senior level skater should be able to do every triple jump, except for the 3A, and should be rewarded for demonstrating that ability. We've lost that variety now with CoP... go back and look at Michelle Kwan's LPs and see how many times she leaves out a certain type of triple jump. Recently, it seems like the only skater able to do that is Joannie Rochette.

  5. #95
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    Bennet//
    Don't forget that Yuna's flip in SP got UR call unfairly.
    (As unfair as previous issue of UR call on GPF2009 Tokyo.)
    Actaully the rotation was enough even though the landing itself was shaky.
    So low GOE is OK for me but the UR call was nonsense.
    I think proper point for her SP could be around 65.
    She definately deserves Silver.
    Last edited by yunaddiction; 03-31-2010 at 03:05 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunaddiction View Post
    Bennet//
    Don't forget that Yuna's flip in SP got UR call unfairly.
    (As unfair as previous issue of UR call on GPF2009 Tokyo.)
    Actaully the rotation was enough even though the landing itself was shaky.
    So low GOE is OK for me but the UR call was nonsense.
    I think proper point for her SP could be around 65.
    She definately deserves Silver.
    Whoaaaaaa. Delusional, much? I definitely agree that the UR call at the GPF was questionable, but the UR on the Flip here was as clear as the day, even without the slow-mo.

    And note to all the lurkers out there... if you want to maintain any image of objectivity, don't have your username be [favorite skater's name]addiction

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethissoawesome View Post
    The issue I have with it is that it will start making things very repetitive and won't encourage trying more difficult things and taking risks... it's a step backwards. Just because something is worth more added together doesn't make it more difficult either... I learned a 3T+3T way before I could do a 3F+2T or 3Lz+2T, and even longer to try a 2Lo at the end. In combinations, the first jump really sets the tone for things... and the harder the first jump is, the more difficult it is to put in combination. Doing a 3Lz, the unnatural kind of counter-rotated take off is a LOT harder than simply going with the flow of your edge and sticking your toepick back for the 3T. Trying to hold the position to take off into a loop jump afterwards is also exponentially harder (and more exhausting) than extending back and picking again... heck, it can even safe a shaky landing sometimes. There is a reason skaters usually order their 3 jump sequences into 3?+2T+2Lo instead of 3?+2Lo+2T... it's a lot easier to hold that position after the easier 2T than the first more difficult jump. Starting to ramble... again, the main reason is variety and seeing skaters try to push themselves to take risks (and the joy of watching it when it happens) rather than resort to the easy way out. To me, it's similar to skaters that have their programs choreographed and planned to leave out weak jumps or jumps they just can't do when (in my opinion) a top senior level skater should be able to do every triple jump, except for the 3A, and should be rewarded for demonstrating that ability. We've lost that variety now with CoP... go back and look at Michelle Kwan's LPs and see how many times she leaves out a certain type of triple jump. Recently, it seems like the only skater able to do that is Joannie Rochette.
    Fair point, I just like to see ladies go for 3-3s, whatever those triple jumps may be.

  8. #98
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    I voted for Cynthia. After watching Laura, Miki, and Cynthia the one element for me that put Cynthia higher was the Spiral Sequence. For some reason Cynthia only received a level 2 on her's while the other 2 got level 4 and I did not see any difference beween the 3! Therefore if Cynthia had received level 4 (which is usually is) like the other 2 did she would have been at least 1.5 points higher and she would have won the bronze.
    I also find if so funny that most of the American posters do not even consider Cynthia for the bronze.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentineSteps View Post
    Whoaaaaaa. Delusional, much? I definitely agree that the UR call at the GPF was questionable, but the UR on the Flip here was as clear as the day, even without the slow-mo.

    And note to all the lurkers out there... if you want to maintain any image of objectivity, don't have your username be [favorite skater's name]addiction
    Do not believe you own eyes too much. If you watch the flip by slow-mo, you will see why it should not be UR.
    If the slow-mo cannot help you, well....any oculist will help you.

  10. #100
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Yu-Na's Flip in the SP was 1/4 turn underrotated. It didn't need to be downgraded (especially because she doesn't pre-rotate much on her toe jumps) but it was definitely a flawed jump...she landed on the inside edge.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackie View Post
    I voted for Cynthia. After watching Laura, Miki, and Cynthia the one element for me that put Cynthia higher was the Spiral Sequence. For some reason Cynthia only received a level 2 on her's while the other 2 got level 4 and I did not see any difference beween the 3! Therefore if Cynthia had received level 4 (which is usually is) like the other 2 did she would have been at least 1.5 points higher and she would have won the bronze.
    I also find if so funny that most of the American posters do not even consider Cynthia for the bronze.
    Don't worry, Cynthia definitely earned attention. She will collect these deferred points next time, just as Mirai and Laura did in worlds. You find what you seek. Next time, people will seek that level 4 spiral from her. Actors don't make money from their first blockbuster, you know.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunaddiction View Post
    Do not believe you own eyes too much. If you watch the flip by slow-mo, you will see why it should not be UR.
    If the slow-mo cannot help you, well....any oculist will help you.
    I'm pretty sure Yuna shudders every time when she hears anything about that short. Are you addicted to see that Yuna? :sheesh:

  13. #103
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Lay perspectives

    My Dad says that Lepisto was very good and her performance reminds him of Witt and adored this beautiful Finnish lady. He knows nothing about FS, but has some unbiased honesty. He finds Yuna overmarked perhaps because he can't tell how important big jumps may be. He does see that Laura's doubles are not as high as triples (of course, not). But I think that he has the point. Apart from big jumps, he thinks that they are comparable. Laura is really fast and has great basics, beautiful, fast spins, steps, and artistry. I myself am happy with Laura's PCS. I recall thinking that her PCS was so undermarked at NHK.
    My parents also say that Mao has high jumps, but my mom realizes that her jumps do not have much flow. Yet, they are not so sure how this has to make a big difference in scores.

    My dad also kept saying at Oly and Worlds that miki should have medalled because of the clean LP.

    Re Mki, some ppl seem to think that she's been lacking spark throughut the season, whereas others think that she did her best in terms of artistry. I hope that she can combine the previous speed and the newly found attention to details next season. I personally could not get why she did not receive more reputation scores in PCS despite Bronze at Worlds and good showing in GP series compared to disasterous ones of Rochette and Mao.
    Last edited by Bennett; 04-04-2010 at 09:55 AM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Re Mki, some ppl seem to think that she's been lacking spark throughut the season, whereas others think that she did her best in terms of artistry. I hope that she can combine the previous speed and the newly found attention to details next season. I personally could not get why she did not receive more reputation scores in PCS despite Bronze at Worlds and good showing in GP series compared to disasterous ones of Rochette and Mao.
    In 2009 worlds, they'd already decided that Rochette would medal. Miki just got lucky to edge pass Mao.
    In 2010, Miki wasn't good throughout the GP series. She scored in the low 160s and won both of her events. She progressed but at a much slower pace compare to Mao.
    Miki is just too slow and too awkward and has absolutely no connection to the music, the audience. Even when she landed her jumps, they looked slow, labored, and always short of rotation. She was lucky to get 4th place.

  15. #105
    The Future Mrs. Evan Lysacek #1Kerryfan's Avatar
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    Actually, I think Lepisto deserved silver, and Kostner bronze. But there was no way the judges would keep Kim off the podium. I don't know what everyone sees in her...... I think she's the most overscored skater ever......

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