View Poll Results: Who should have taken the bronze medal?

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  • Laura Lepisto?

    58 21.32%
  • Carolina Kostner?

    36 13.24%
  • Cynthia Phaneuf?

    53 19.49%
  • Miki Ando?

    107 39.34%
  • Other

    18 6.62%
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Thread: Who should have taken the bronze on the ladies event?

  1. #31
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    I said Cynthia, her both programmes had the best balance. I did not vote Miki, because medalist should have 2 programs good enough, her SP wasn't worth of medal. If had the old system based in placemets with scores given in this competition, Carolina would have taken the bronze, if I counted right.

  2. #32
    Custom Title figuristka's Avatar
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    I choose Cynthia, she had a good short and very good Free program, miki's Free should have been slightly ahead but Cynthia overall, over both Miki and Laura. If on, Laura is the best skater, but her free was not that strong this competition.

  3. #33
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    I voted for Miki because I loved her LP, but Laura winning doesn't bother me als I love her interpretation and feeling for the music. Miki, Laura and Carolina were just so close today. Phaneuf was technically strong but has zero presentation. And - not that it counts here, but nevertheless - her costume was awful. It looked like she had the towel from her hotelroom around her hips.

  4. #34
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    Ando landed more jumps, but Lepisto was better in every other aspects.
    Even in jumps, Lepisto had an edge in quality of jumps she managed to land.
    Her 3T-3T was a firecracker, one of the best I've ever seen.
    We also have to consider that Lepisto is fecking hot and Ando is coached by Morozov. BLAH

    I was pulling for Kostner, but it seemed that Europeans have pretty much given up on her.
    Cynthia skated beautifully, but everyone including even herself is not used to seeing her on the podium.
    Figure Skating is a conservative sport, and it just didn't happen this time, but she will have good chances next season if she keeps it up.

  5. #35
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Ando landed more jumps, but Lepisto was better in every other aspects.
    Even in jumps, Lepisto had an edge in quality of jumps she managed to land.
    So because Laura had one great jumping pass, that ignores the fact that the rest of the jumps don't compare even a little bit to the jumps Miki put out there. I mean even Laura's triple lutz was shaky (to say the least). So what if Laura came a quality double salchow? As Johnny Weir nicely put it there are US girls at the intermediate level who are doing jumps like double loop/double toe. I'm sorry but its really not impressive that Laura an execute doubles quality.

    And yes, Laura has better spins and spirals than Miki. But Laura isn't exactly Lucinda Ruh. She's not doing the fastest most creative spins ever. And she's not doing level four footwork either. Ando's spins and spirals may not have been as quality as Laura's, but Ando executed cleanly level 4 spins, level 4 spirals, AND level 3 footwork. While also doing difficult jumps. And Ando has good basic skating skills.

    Yes, Laura has choregraphy and interpertation. But its easy to have hard choregraphy and good interpertation when your not trying to think about executing triple jumps. The idea that people can't seem to understand this....

  6. #36
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    We can understand this. My question then becomes are you judging Laura, Miki et al by ISU standards (in which case than yes, I think her bronze is deserved) or what you believe that the standards should be. To me, the most convincing argument is for Cynthia Phaneuf, who was probably underscored in PCS in both the short and the long (maybe). I can't deny that I don't think Miki's a great skater, though, and I hate her programs. Except her (Phaneuf's) non-jump elements were easy, and it's not like she did the hardest jumps (no flip, one lutz).

    Additionally, why is it that fans of the harder jumps always dismiss other components of figure skating? That's something I can't understand. You see that time and time again and it genuinely befuddles me. Especially in this competition, when no one really displayed the full package of figure skating (those that did - Takahashi, V/M - won). For the third time in four seasons, the champion didn't win either segment (Ando was second to Kim and Asada in SP/LP, Asada second to Kostner and Kim).
    Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 03-28-2010 at 09:54 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    We can understand this. My question then becomes are you judging Laura, Miki et al by ISU standards (in which case than yes, I think her bronze is deserved) or what you believe that the standards should be. To me, the most convincing argument is for Cynthia Phaneuf, who was probably underscored in PCS in both the short and the long (maybe). I can't deny that I don't think Miki's a great skater, though, and I hate her programs. Except her (Phaneuf's) non-jump elements were easy, and it's not like she did the hardest jumps (no flip, one lutz).

    Additionally, why is it that fans of the harder jumps always dismiss other components of figure skating? That's something I can't understand. You see that time and time again and it genuinely befuddles me. Especially in this competition, when no one really displayed the full package of figure skating (those that did - Takahashi, V/M - won). For the third time in four seasons, the champion didn't win either segment (Ando was second to Kim and Asada in SP/LP, Asada second to Kostner and Kim).
    Are you suggesting that Mao shouldn't have won over Costner in the SP in 2008? Sorry, that is still something I haven't gotten even til now.

  8. #38
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Additionally, why is it that fans of the harder jumps always dismiss other components of figure skating? That's something I can't understand. You see that time and time again and it genuinely befuddles me. Especially in this competition, when no one really displayed the full package of figure skating (those that did - Takahashi, V/M - won). For the third time in four seasons, the champion didn't win either segment (Ando was second to Kim and Asada in SP/LP, Asada second to Kostner and Kim).
    Because we don't think that Laura's spins and spirals were sooo wonderful that they should have ignored the fact that her program was a heck of a lot easier than the other girls. (By quite a bit) This is suppose to be a sport and the jumps are over half of the elements that are judged. So when someone performs really poor jumping content and loses to people who executed high level jumps and high level spins and spirals, its annoying to say the least.

  9. #39
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    No. I just thought it was indicative of how flawed the skating was (though I have no problem with Kostner's 0.18 lead over Asada in the 2008 SP). When you have a comfortable, decisive victory, the winner wins at least one portion of the competition (hopefully the long - a remnant of 6.0, admittedly). When the competition is all over the place, you get a result like here.

    Lets use Skate America from this season as an example. How often is it that a skater doesn't place top three in either segment but comes second overall? That's what happened to Sawyer. Was it a fair victory? Yes. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Was it satisfying? Mroz, Verner and Bradley bombed at least one phase of the competition, Amodio underperformed the LP (though I still adored it), so no, not really.

    Did Lepisto earn her victory, playing by ISU rules? Yes. Was it entirely satisfying? No. Not just because she was underwhelming, but because Nagasu bombed the LP, Suzuki bombed the SP, Ando was uninspiring (as usual), etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Because we don't think that Laura's spins and spirals were sooo wonderful that they should have ignored the fact that her program was a heck of a lot easier than the other girls. (By quite a bit) This is suppose to be a sport and the jumps are over half of the elements that are judged. So when someone performs really poor jumping content and loses to people who executed high level jumps and high level spins and spirals, its annoying to say the least.
    Okay, can you check out the LP and SP protocols for both and tell me where you feel the judges erred? Or do you feel it was the system? Or both? But frankly, when you say "well, it's easy to have choreography and interpretation w/out concentrating on harder triples" I wonder if you feel if the reverse is true, and if someone should be dismissed summarily based on that. Also, Ando had level two footwork and one level two spin in the LP. If she had level three on either, she would've won bronze.

  10. #40
    Custom Title snowflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riardo View Post
    I mean she is OK but is it enough to get on the podium with only 3 triple jumps????? This is very discouraging trend.:(
    To be fair Laura did 3 triples with + GOE on each in her SP.
    Miki did one downgraded lutz and one flip with -GOE in her SP.

    Six clean triples in SP + FS for both then

    If Miki had won brons or silver why not say:

    "How could Miki win a medal with that disastrous SP and no 3/3 combination."

    Anyway they were very close, could easily have gone the other way.

    Of course it is a problem that you can win brons with 6 triple jumps overall, but IMO the problem lies in ladies' FS; Very weak field except for a few skaters.

  11. #41
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    I just do not get the arguments Miki should have got the bronze, has everybody forgotten her SP? Her LP was very good, but not that good that the SP should have ignored.
    I am thinking for those ladies who had 2 good or almost good programmes.

  12. #42
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    I voted Ando, and Phaneuf should have been 4th overall.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Yu-na should have won bronze.

    Podium:
    Mao
    Carolina
    Yu-na
    I would think:
    Mao
    Miki
    Yu-na

    I think that Caro and Yuna made too many mistakes to get Silver. Miki missed one combo in SP and one spin and one DG in LP. But her SP and LP were performed well.
    Yuna not only made mistakes in 3F, spin, spiral, and steps in SP and 3S and 2A in LP, but also was off the focus in the presentation department.
    Caro rotated more jumps than Lepisto but her LP had several flaws. Besides, her jumps were not as big as they used to be before. I wonder if this was because she may have gained weight.

  14. #44
    Custom Title snowflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT_Fin View Post
    I just do not get the arguments Miki should have got the bronze, has everybody forgotten her SP? Her LP was very good, but not that good that the SP should have ignored.
    I am thinking for those ladies who had 2 good or almost good programmes.
    Agree, but who did 2 good programmes except for Mao?
    Laura, Miki, Cynthia and Carolina was within 1,31 points, so ... it is not easy to decide what's fair.

  15. #45
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT_Fin View Post
    I just do not get the arguments Miki should have got the bronze, has everybody forgotten her SP? Her LP was very good, but not that good that the SP should have ignored.
    I am thinking for those ladies who had 2 good or almost good programmes.
    But Lepisto had a mistake in the short program too, she had a fall out on the double axel. The only person who did both programs well was Mao and to a smaller extent in comparision to what a lot of other people did Marakova.

    However, when you look at Ksensia she did a clean short with a 3toe/3toe, and a 3flip. (higher content than Lauras) and even if Marakova had not missed her 3sal, she still would have finished behind Laura. That's with 6 triples in the long to Laura's 3 and that's including a 3toe/3toe in the long too.

    Its just hard for me to accept people arguing that the system is truly judging the jumps fairly. Because its not. I mean Lauras 2/2/2 combination was worth more than a 3toe, and no skater will tell you that Laura's 2/2/2 combination was harder.

    One way they could solve a lot of problems was to make the difference between a double axel and a 3toe worth more. Also start actually weighing difficult on combinations.

    This is a sport and they need to find a balance between weighing risk, quality, and penalizing failure. The current system just doesn't do that and seriously undervalues jumps.

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