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Thread: The mule kick

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    So a world champ with 3toe, 2a, and a problematic 3lutz and 3flip (she falls on those jumps all the time)? Yeah....unless you're Laura Lepisto I don't think that will ever happen. Love her spins though!
    Yes, but remember, ........ A lousy skater will earn low scores for a great program; while a great skater will earn high scores for a lousy program.

    But regardless, I hope all the skaters involved work hard on their technique and come back strong next year.

  2. #47
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    I hope Laura Lepisto put 2 3Z, 3F, 3T-3T, 3R, 3Sal and become a world champ. That girl is PCS+GOE on ice. Since the judges obviously love her, I'm going to jump on Laura's band wagon from now on.

  3. #48
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    ...And then there might be problems in that bad technique such as a mule kick or toe hammer is what is enabling a jumper to have a huge, speedy jump that is credited under GoE.

    Also, what happens if a skater 'invents' a new technique that could be considered 'good'?...
    That is a good point. A variation in technique, like a high kick, is not an "error" in the CoP. I think it is in the same category as a leg wrap.

    A leg wrapped at the knee instead of crossed at the ankle is not "classical" jump technique. Some people think it is not as attractive as the classical air position, others don't mind it esthetically one way or the other. Supposedly there is a reason why the standard position is standard -- over the years skaters with the classical techniques have fared better with their jumps. But in the case of the leg wrap, Midori Ito and Yukari Nakano are the best-known examples, and they were great jumpers who could even do triple Axels!

    I think sometimes it comes down to the individual skater. Michelle Kwan, for instance, never had a really good layback spin (her back was not flecible enough). So she experimented throughout her carreer with many variations until she hit upon some positions that she could do comfortably, and which were pretty enough, even if they were not the classic attitude position that most skaters strive for. (Angela Nikodinov was a contemporary of Michelle who had an excellent layback in classical position.)

    Kevin Van Der Perren is the only skater who "spots" his jumps, like dancers do. Conventional wisdom said that he should not be able to rotate as fast with this "flawed" technique. But he has done quads and just did a huge triple-triple-triple at Worlds.

  4. #49
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But in the case of the leg wrap, Midori Ito and Yukari Nakano are the best-known examples, and they were great jumpers who could even do triple Axels!
    Midori did not technically wrap her jumps. A wrap is a knee to knee position like Nakano which is more likely to result in an UR. Nakano is very tight thigh to thigh and knee to knee. Midori had a position that was more like the "lift" position of jumps where it just hasn't pushed down yet ankle to ankle. She needed to do that so she could slow down her rotation since she jumped so big!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Actually, Alissa's loop and flip aren't that bad, and I am pretty sure she has done a triple-toe/triple toe combo (in some of the summer warm-up contests leading up to the 2008-09 season?) The Salchow -- OK, you've got me there.

    On the other hand, Alissa has the best Lutz take-off edge of all the U.S. ladies (granted that is not saying much ). I have seen her in practice glide the whole circumference of the rink on an outside back edge, then go right up for a Lutz.

    Alissa's problem is not faulty technique, it is simple stage fright. When the bright lights go on her nervous system betrays her, she is unable to co-ordinate all the parts of the body that are supposed to be working together, she can't generate the height and rotation -- down she goes.

    I think she will be a big hit on SOI.
    Her loop is bad....it's always UR and she falls on it a lot. She probably has done 3t-3t in some random competitions but never in any important competitions, she always does 3t-2t or 2t-2t. And her lutz edge takeoff is good but considering she usually falls on her lutz it doesn't really matter how good her edge takeoff is....

    Also, Alissa's personal best FS score is 109.78, and that's from SC 2005 before they started getting strict on URs. She's a nice girl with pretty spins, but anyone who thought she could be World/Olympic Medalist material if she skated clean was likely suffering from wishful thinking. If she landed everything with no URs then she's barely competitive in terms of technical content, she can get big GOEs on spins and spirals but not on jumps, and her PCS are never that high because she skates slowly and looks at the ground. I agree she will be a great show skater but considering skaters like Yuna, Mao, Joannie, etc can make multiple mistakes and score 130+ in the FS while Alissa has never broken 110 I think shows that she is just not up to snuff with the top. Even Lepisto can get 114 with 3 triples and Alissa can't match that.

  6. #51
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Her loop is bad....it's always UR and she falls on it a lot. She probably has done 3t-3t in some random competitions but never in any important competitions, she always does 3t-2t or 2t-2t. And her lutz edge takeoff is good but considering she usually falls on her lutz it doesn't really matter how good her edge takeoff is....

    Also, Alissa's personal best FS score is 109.78, and that's from SC 2005 before they started getting strict on URs. She's a nice girl with pretty spins, but anyone who thought she could be World/Olympic Medalist material if she skated clean was likely suffering from wishful thinking. If she landed everything with no URs then she's barely competitive in terms of technical content, she can get big GOEs on spins and spirals but not on jumps, and her PCS are never that high because she skates slowly and looks at the ground. I agree she will be a great show skater but considering skaters like Yuna, Mao, Joannie, etc can make multiple mistakes and score 130+ in the FS while Alissa has never broken 110 I think shows that she is just not up to snuff with the top. Even Lepisto can get 114 with 3 triples and Alissa can't match that.
    Take it easy SilverLake. Not every skater is cut out to be a WC. In fact most never become a WC or an Olympic medalist - but they skate anyway - mostly because they love it..

    In the case of Alissa - I don't care what her critics say. I love her skating and think she is a wonderful girl and will do well with SOI.

    Actually if Alissa still wants to compete I would be happy to follow her as a fan next season.
    Same with Sasha and Fumie.

    I know how much you like all of these "babies" and "mini- whoevers" coming up - and I like them too. But I am not so anxious to toss away old favorites so quickly.

    And how boring it would be if Worlds next year had only the skaters from Jr Worlds this season. Many of those skaters need a little time to mature. I like Christina but at the moment Alissa's skating, falls and all, is for me way more beautiful to watch. Christina, Kanako, etc. - need more time before she will become a top Senior skaters.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-02-2010 at 04:25 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Take it easy SilverLake. Not every skater is cut out to be a WC. In fact most never become a WC or an Olympic medalist - but they skate anyway - mostly because they love it..

    In the case of Alissa - I don't care what her critics say. I love her skating and think she is a wonderful girl and will do well with SOI.

    Actually if Alissa still wants to compete I would be happy to follow her as a fan next season.
    Same with Sasha and Fumie.

    I know how much you like all of these "babies" and "mini- whoevers" coming up - and I like them too. But I am not so anxious to toss away old favorites so quickly.

    And how boring it would be if Worlds next year had only the skaters from Jr Worlds this season. Many of those skaters need a little time to mature. I like Christina but at the moment Alissa's skating, falls and all, is for me way more beautiful to watch. Christina, Kanako, etc. - need more time before she will become a top Senior skaters.
    I'm in agreement that Alissa is a beautiful skater, I was just pointing out that she does have technical limitations. I do love the mini-skaters but I recognize that a lot can happen in coming years, and that they have a long way to go before becoming top senior ladies (in addition through going through puberty). I used to be an Alissa uber-fan actually, and realized in recent years why she never reallly made it, and so now I'm just more realistic about it. Good luck to her on SOI, i'm sure she'll be great!

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