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Thread: Team Mao: potential plans

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    You're welcome. I've noticed that Yamada's students tend to flutz. Could it be her teaching method? I'm not sure. You know, I changed my ten cents to two cents immediately after having read your post. My mind was preoccupied with jump technique that I wasn't really thinking while writing
    Well, I don't know enough about Yamada to make an educated comment about the flutz. Do you think we'll learn Mao's coaching situation soon?

    Edited to add: You know, I didn't really notice that you put ten cents the first time around. I automatically put 2 cents in my reply... It all works out, though, because your post was so thorough.
    Last edited by Ren; 04-06-2010 at 03:39 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    Well, I don't know enough about Yamada to make an educated comment about the flutz. Do you think we'll learn Mao's coaching situation soon?

    Edited to add: You know, I didn't really notice that you put ten cents the first time around. I automatically put 2 cents in my reply... It all works out, though, because your post was so thorough.
    She doesn't teach the best ways to jump, but she is a good coach. I guess Midori was an exception because she was just naturally talented.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    You're welcome. I've noticed that Yamada's students tend to flutz. Could it be her teaching method?
    Midori did not flutz. Ms. Yamada is not Mao's first coach, either. Mao's first coach Ms. Yuko Monna was Miki's one of earlier coaches. But Miki lipped before whereas Mao flutze(s/d).

    I also feel that Ms. Yamada's students tend to have had some jump issues. But these issues seem to vary in kind by skater.

  4. #94
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    Mao doesn't lack basic skating skills. She couldn't have gone this far without having at least above average ones. I think what happened is that trying to fix that one problem from her childhood (flutz) probably lead to several new issues. I think it affected her flip (which seemed better two seasons ago) and her speed/flow in general. As others have pointed out, fixing a jump is extremely difficult and it can lead a skater become less confident at their jumps, and thus more prone to URs. I just don't think it's a coincidence that most of Mao's struggles started in 2008-2009 at the same time that she was fixing her flutz. This is not saying that Mao shouldn't fix her flutz, but she should take it step by step this time.
    Last edited by miki88; 04-06-2010 at 07:24 AM.

  5. #95
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    Mao's jumps never screemed the ahhhhhhhhhh! kind of power and wowness. They have always been more heavinly landed, featherly like soft as jelly. Speed may have to do with it, but I dunno if it'll be productive to change that quality in her jumps. It'd be an entirely different style for her and her whole skating might be affected. She has to focus in bringing back the 3-3 and putting transitions in/out of her elements. She' talented enough to do that

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jian10
    IMHO. I don't know who's going to be her coach, but I think Mao needs to be humble and be ready to start from the beginning. When student is lack of basic skill, she can't go far.
    Where do you see that Mao is not humble???? She is willing to train and work to fix her problem. Not sure what you mean by the beginning? About basic skating skills, Mao has plenty. About can't go far. At this stage of her career, i.e. post olys silver, she is a 2X world gold, one time world silver and one time olys silver medalist. She is in the Guiness book of world records. Not the best in record but comparable to MK's post olys record.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    I've never seen her try a layback, although she has great flexibility. If there is a flaw to her skating skills, I guess it would then have to do with blade control, but really that's not much. Her skating skills are above many skaters'. But boy, I sound mean today. I hope no one will try to kill me because I mean all this as constructive criticism.

    does lack of layback mean lackof blade control? Mao does a sideway spin which substitutes for a layback. I think OGM Oksana Baiul does not do layback and substituted with sideway spin, and Oksana has great flexibility too. BTW, most ppl say sideway spin is much more difficult than layback. Of course Mirai has one of the best sideway spins.

    About Mao's basic skating skills: she has good speed and excellent ice coverage.

    Her jumps are more similar to Tara and Kristi's, they alll have extremely fast rotations in the air. Unlike Tara and Kristi, Mao gets good height with her jumps. I too wonder how she can go into a 3A with a practical standstill on the ice.

    The flutz is hard to fix. Arutunian was going to fix it and they parted. I believe Frank fixed Michelle's flutz, but MK never gets deep outside edge, just a shallow outside edge.

    Her 3/3: I think she naturally prefers the 3loop, but was downgraded. She landed 3f/3t with +GOE in the past, she should continue that. If she manages 3f/3t and add another 2t, or 2l to to that combo, she may earn some extra points.

    Quote Originally Posted by robinhood
    Mao's jumps never screemed the ahhhhhhhhhh! kind of power and wowness. They have always been more heavinly landed, featherly like soft as jelly. Speed may have to do with it, but I dunno if it'll be productive to change that quality in her jumps. It'd be an entirely different style for her and her whole skating might be affected. She has to focus in bringing back the 3-3 and putting transitions in/out of her elements. She' talented enough to do that
    I screamed WOW a few times for her 3ZA. I agree, the power factor is not the essential feature of her jumps. She has great spring, timing etc to vault her in the air, and fast rotations to complete the rotations. There is always an ethereal quality to her skating, including her jumps. Unfortunately under the current systems these are not things that are rewarded much. I agree on putting transitions in/out elements, tht is what gather points. I thnk if she remains healthy she will do very well in the next 4 yrs. But even if she retires today, she has achieved quite a lot.

    BTW does Dice have a tech coach? I like Mao to work with Dice's tech coach
    Last edited by rtureck; 04-06-2010 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #97
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wonder if Mao fans are, above all, fans of The long monologue about Mao the Untouchable.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck View Post
    BTW does Dice have a tech coach? I like Mao to work with Dice's tech coach
    You mean Daisuke Takahashi? His coach has been Ms. Utako Nagamitsu and their relationship seems to have been more than 10 years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utako_Nagamitsu
    This lady is based in Osaka and a bit far from Nagoya (much closer than Tokyo though). Besides, the lady teaches at Kansai Univ where Dai is based and I wonder if Kansai Univ wants to share her with Mao's Univ. It could be a win-win situation though if they can agree on it.

    I hear that he receives advice from Takeshi Honda, too.

    I heard that Mao's sister Mai was or has been taught by Takeshi. So Takeshi may be available around that area.

    BTW, is Mai still skating?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    You mean Daisuke Takahashi? His coach has been Ms. Utako Nagamitsu and their relationship seems to have been more than 10 years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utako_Nagamitsu
    This lady is based in Osaka and a bit far from Nagoya (much closer than Tokyo though). Besides, the lady teaches at Kansai Univ where Dai is based and I wonder if Kansai Univ wants to share her with Mao's Univ. It could be a win-win situation though if they can agree on it.

    I hear that he receives advice from Takeshi Honda, too.

    I heard that Mao's sister Mai was or has been taught by Takeshi. So Takeshi may be available around that area.

    BTW, is Mai still skating?
    Thanks for info. I think Takeshi is one of the most artistic skaters. I watched some of his comps live.

    Dunno if Mai is still skating, is she still modelling? I think she has been overshadowed by younger sis. Mai is probably the prettiest skater evah! Of course tht has nothing to do with skating


    Quote Originally Posted by GiuliaPlum View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if Mao fans are, above all, fans of The long monologue about Mao the Untouchable.
    No one here including Mao's fans are saying Mao is untouchable. Actually the lengthiest post in this thread is a critique of Mao's skating. Maybe criticism of Mao's skating is easier to your eyes, and time flies by when you are reading about the shortcomings of Mao's skating??

    Complaining about how long is the off-season. Nothing more
    G Plum, Evidently some anti Mao fans are not just whining about length of off season. :sheesh:
    Last edited by rtureck; 04-06-2010 at 11:21 AM.

  10. #100
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck View Post
    BTW, most ppl say sideway spin is much more difficult than layback.
    Actually, the sideways leaning spin is MUCH easier than a true layback. What people tell you this is difficult? A true layback requires the skater to push the hips forward over the spinning foot. The sideways spin requires much less effort.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Actually, the sideways leaning spin is MUCH easier than a true layback. What people tell you this is difficult? A true layback requires the skater to push the hips forward over the spinning foot. The sideways spin requires much less effort.
    Either way, it's hard to believe that elite skaters can't do a layback. You learn it as a kid.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Actually, the sideways leaning spin is MUCH easier than a true layback. What people tell you this is difficult? A true layback requires the skater to push the hips forward over the spinning foot. The sideways spin requires much less effort.
    Thanks, no one said a true layback spin is easy, seriously how many lady skaters out there have accomplished a true layback spin? Many attempted. I was just responding to a poster who said lack of layback is lack of blade control. Anyways, sideway spin is allowed to substitute for a layback spin in competition right? For some reasons commentators usually compliment skaters like Nagasu etc who are able to accomplish a sideway spin, why?

    Again, thanks for the info

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiuliaPlum View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if Mao fans are, above all, fans of The long monologue about Mao the Untouchable.
    Really? Where you see that? :sheesh: Certainly, not in this thread.

  14. #104
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck View Post
    For some reasons commentators usually compliment skaters like Nagasu etc who are able to accomplish a sideway spin, why?
    Nagasu gets a L4 by doing a sideways leaning spin, a true layback, a haircutter, and a Bielman all with nice speed, centering, and position. This is why she's consistently complimented.

    Yes, you can do a sideways spin, but to get higher levels, you have to be twisted at least 90 degrees and then to get the layback have your shoulders squared up, then complete the rest of your features.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck
    BTW does Dice have a tech coach? I like Mao to work with Dice's tech coach
    While Utako Ngamitsu has been Daisuke's main coach, Takeshi Honda has also worked with Daisuke as a jump coach for a few years. One of the reason why Daisuke could get back his jumps in a short time after such a serious injury is Takeshi. He helped Daisuke a lot. Takeshi works as Utako Nagamitsu's assistant coach, as well. It isn't full-time. He is still busy with shows and commentary jobs.

    IIRC, Mr. Makoto Okazaki, a former single skater and now ISU technical specialist, occasionally works with both Mao and Daisuke.

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