Team Mao: potential plans

[rtureck]

Nagasu gets a L4 by doing a sideways leaning spin, a true layback, a haircutter, and a Bielman all with nice speed, centering, and position. This is why she's consistently complimented.

Yes, you can do a sideways spin, but to get higher levels, you have to be twisted at least 90 degrees and then to get the layback have your shoulders squared up, then complete the rest of your features.

Thanks again. It is obvious among the top 6 ladies at olys, Nagasu has the best spins. How do you rank the other top 5 ladies at olys? Also many ppl talkabout Mao's jump problems in this thread, I wonder what are things that she need to do to improve her spins and spirals.

[dlgpffps]

Anyways, sideway spin is allowed to substitute for a layback spin in competition right?

No, I meant to say it might suggest it. No one can know for sure. I've seen her do a very poor ina bauer and have never seen her do a layback, which possibly could mean she has weaker control over her blades. It's just a floating theory. Nothing to get all riled up about.

[miki88]

No, I meant to say it might suggest it. No one can know for sure. I've seen her do a very poor ina bauer and have never seen her do a layback, which possibly could mean she has weaker control over her blades. It's just a floating theory. Nothing to get all riled up about.

Well, there are many different types of laybacks. I've seen Mao still doing the standard layback as part of her combination spin. They are not as flexible as Mirai's but I think that still counts as a layback. As a junior, Mao was doing a very flexible layback as I recall.

[evangeline]

No, I meant to say it might suggest it. No one can know for sure. I've seen her do a very poor ina bauer and have never seen her do a layback, which possibly could mean she has weaker control over her blades. It's just a floating theory. Nothing to get all riled up about.

I don't know about Ina Bauers, but Mao has indeed done layback spins. Here is her 2008 Worlds SP--her spin at 1:14 starts out sideways-leaning then she goes into the normal layback position, then a haircutter up to a Biellman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz-AktwtDfs

[jian10]

Where do you see that Mao is not humble???? She is willing to train and work to fix her problem. Not sure what you mean by the beginning? About basic skating skills, Mao has plenty. About can't go far. At this stage of her career, i.e. post olys silver, she is a 2X world gold, one time world silver and one time olys silver medalist. She is in the Guiness book of world records. Not the best in record but comparable to MK's post olys record.

I'm not saying that Mao is not a humble person, rather she should be ready to start from the beginning. Because reprogramming is more efficient than just bandaging the problems. Instead of trying to fix the edge problem in her 3L, what if Mao re-learns Lutz starting with a single but with greater speed and the correct edge? Since she is already a great jumper, I don't think it'll take too long to go from single to triple.

In the past 2 years I think she had a false sense of security that if she just showed up and did 3As, then she would get the OGM. Someone should have had a tough talk with her back then. However, I think she is realizing that she has some home work to do. I think that is great. I can't wait to see her new programs in near future.

[aurora100]

I'm not saying that Mao is not a humble person, rather she should be ready to start from the beginning. Because reprogramming is more efficient than just bandaging the problems. Instead of trying to fix the edge problem in her 3L, what if Mao re-learns Lutz starting with a single but with greater speed and the correct edge? Since she is already a great jumper, I don't think it'll take too long to go from single to triple.

In the past 2 years I think she had a false sense of security that if she just showed up and did 3As, then she would get the OGM. Someone should have had a tough talk with her back then. However, I think she is realizing that she has some home work to do. I think that is great. I can't wait to see her new programs in near future.

I agree with you here. In a different way, Mao's current plan reminds me a bit of Michelle Kwan at the end of her career. I don't know what happened after she left Frank Carroll but she started to believe that she knew best what she needed in her skating. She had no coach. In fact there was an event, a world championship where her father was there as her supporter and no coach. She asked him to sit with her in K&C area, which he sheepishly did. I don't know if she just got sick of listening to everyone who was telling her what to do or she was so big no one could tell her what to do. Now I understand Mao is trying to collect a group of coaches to guide her but in a strange way, it is a similar response to Kwan. And Kwan did not really improve in her technical arsenal during this time. She was absolutely good but she didn't get what she needed to get the OGM, the only thing left for her to achieve. Mao needs to find a good coach and stick to a game plan for four years, and do everything it takes, if she wants to be an Olympic Champion.

[youtubo]

Hmmm.....I have read almost all the threads, but hardly did not find Mao's future plan. Does she have the potential for next season??????

[rtureck]

I'm not saying that Mao is not a humble person, rather she should be ready to start from the beginning. Because reprogramming is more efficient than just bandaging the problems. Instead of trying to fix the edge problem in her 3L, what if Mao re-learns Lutz starting with a single but with greater speed and the correct edge? Since she is already a great jumper, I don't think it'll take too long to go from single to triple.

But in your original post you said, "Mao needs to be humble". From reading that it comes across that you implied that she is not humble. How are you sure she is not willing to do whatever it takes to get a real lutz? I don't know what it will take to fix the flutz, not too many skaters can fix that. I hope she does, but if she does not, it absolutely does not mean that she is not "humble' or she is not willing to go back to learning from single lutz on.

In the past 2 years I think she had a false sense of security that if she just showed up and did 3As, then she would get the OGM. Someone should have had a tough talk with her back then. However, I think she is realizing that she has some home work to do. I think that is great. I can't wait to see her new programs in near future.

I have a completely different take on her past 2 yrs. She was rewarded for her 3/3 in the past, then the system punished her for UR. Tech issues that faced her in the past 2 yrs include fixing the UR second jump, get a real lutz, and improve on the 3A. Mao and team chose the 3A. It is a strategy call, not necessarily a bad one, she did win the OSM. They are trying to fix the other 2 in the future. And no matter how willing and how humble she is, there is a chance she may not be able to fix the other 2 problems. So if she is unable to fix the other 2 problems will ppl again say that she is not willing to be humble ?

Mao's current plan reminds me a bit of Michelle Kwan at the end of her career. I don't know what happened after she left Frank Carroll but she started to believe that she knew best what she needed in her skating. She had no coach. In fact there was an event, a world championship where her father was there as her supporter and no coach. She asked him to sit with her in K&C area, which he sheepishly did. I don't know if she just got sick of listening to everyone who was telling her what to do or she was so big no one could tell her what to do. Now I understand Mao is trying to collect a group of coaches to guide her but in a strange way, it is a similar response to Kwan.

Kwan was coachless, Mao has never been without a coach, so I disagree and frankly don't understand your point. Since Mao is willing to have a team of coaches, i.e. she is willing to work with and listen to ppl who can help her. How is her situation similar to Kwan. TAT was officially Mao's coach, but b/c of her health she was not able to go to all comps with Mao, I give kudos to Mao to be able to skate under this less than ideal situation. BTW, as a coach TAT has a reputation of not taking any nonsense from her students. She has a reputation of demanding absolute obedience or listenting to her instructions from her students, and she had fired students or quit coaching students (e.g. the very public separation with Cohen, when Cohen did not listen) . And thre is no account of Mao not listening to TAT.

Mao needs to find a good coach and stick to a game plan for four years, and do everything it takes, if she wants to be an Olympic Champion

I think she is on track to find a good coach or a coaching team. She may stick to a plan, do whatever it takes, or die trying and still may not be OGM. All she can do is try.

[dlgpffps]

I don't know about Ina Bauers, but Mao has indeed done layback spins. Here is her 2008 Worlds SP--her spin at 1:14 starts out sideways-leaning then she goes into the normal layback position, then a haircutter up to a Biellman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz-AktwtDfs

Sorry. How did I miss that . That's one of my favorite SPs!!

[aurora100]

But in your original post you said, "Mao needs to be humble". From reading that it comes across that you implied that she is not humble. How are you sure she is not willing to do whatever it takes to get a real lutz? I don't know what it will take to fix the flutz, not too many skaters can fix that. I hope she does, but if she does not, it absolutely does not mean that she is not "humble' or she is not willing to go back to learning from single lutz on.

I have a completely different take on her past 2 yrs. She was rewarded for her 3/3 in the past, then the system punished her for UR. Tech issues that faced her in the past 2 yrs include fixing the UR second jump, get a real lutz, and improve on the 3A. Mao and team chose the 3A. It is a strategy call, not necessarily a bad one, she did win the OSM. They are trying to fix the other 2 in the future. And no matter how willing and how humble she is, there is a chance she may not be able to fix the other 2 problems. So if she is unable to fix the other 2 problems will ppl again say that she is not willing to be humble ?


Kwan was coachless, Mao has never been without a coach, so I disagree and frankly don't understand your point. Since Mao is willing to have a team of coaches, i.e. she is willing to work with and listen to ppl who can help her. How is her situation similar to Kwan. TAT was officially Mao's coach, but b/c of her health she was not able to go to all comps with Mao, I give kudos to Mao to be able to skate under this less than ideal situation. BTW, as a coach TAT has a reputation of not taking any nonsense from her students. She has a reputation of demanding absolute obedience or listenting to her instructions from her students, and she had fired students or quit coaching students (e.g. the very public separation with Cohen, when Cohen did not listen) . And thre is no account of Mao not listening to TAT.

I think she is on track to find a good coach or a coaching team. She may stick to a plan, do whatever it takes, or die trying and still may not be OGM. All she can do is try.

Well let me explain, if I may. My point, you may disagree with, is that having an army of coaches, is like having no coach. Someone has to take charge and direct this plan of Mao's. Someone has to be the boss. There has to be one head coach, like there has to be one captain on a ship if you are going to get to your destination and get through the rough water along the way. I don't have a problem with Mao having a whole bunch of people helping her. But she needs to have one coach. And she doesn't have one. And that's like having no coach.

[miki88]

The original poster did say there will be one "head coach" of the team, so I guess it depends on the leadership of this person and the cooperation of the rest of the team.

[hurrah]

I saw Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on YouTube, as well as the other Russian girls, and they are formidable! Sochi is going to be an even greater drama than Vancouver.

If Mao wins OGM, which I hope is the case, it will because the whole Japanese skating community rallied together and learned new coaching techniques.

[silverlake22]

I saw Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on YouTube, as well as the other Russian girls, and they are formidable! Sochi is going to be an even greater drama than Vancouver.

If Mao wins OGM, which I hope is the case, it will because the whole Japanese skating community rallied together and learned new coaching techniques.

Yes. I think that is why Morozov is moving to Moscow, I think he wants to coach some of these young wunderkinds, and in Russia, there's certainly enough to go around. Adelina and Anna are my favorites but Liza's technical abilities are just incredible!

[jian10]

[QUOTE=rtureck;496241]Again I did not say that Mao is not humble, but YOU perceived that way. I don't know how or what other skaters have tried to fix the wrong edges. Did they keep trying to jump triple with the different edge? Or did they try it starting with a single jump? This is just my suggestion. Try to reprogram the problematic jump.
When I said "be humble", I meant "be ready to start from the beginning". I read a post in another forum that one of the reasons Mao changed the coach to Tarasova was that Rafael was going over basic techniques with Mao. And Mao and her mom thought that wasn't necessary. If this was true, obviously that was a bad decision in Mao's part. Maybe after not so successful seasons in Mao's point of view, perhaps she'll be more willing to comb through the basics.

[miki88]

[QUOTE=jian10;496411]

Again I did not say that Mao is not humble, but YOU perceived that way. I don't know how or what other skaters have tried to fix the wrong edges. Did they keep trying to jump triple with the different edge? Or did they try it starting with a single jump? This is just my suggestion. Try to reprogram the problematic jump.
When I said "be humble", I meant "be ready to start from the beginning". I read a post in another forum that one of the reasons Mao changed the coach to Tarasova was that Rafael was going over basic techniques with Mao. And Mao and her mom thought that wasn't necessary. If this was true, obviously that was a bad decision in Mao's part. Maybe after not so successful seasons in Mao's point of view, perhaps she'll be more willing to comb through the basics.

That's weird. I heard that Rafael was someone who was against the new system, at least at that time. That was why he didn't do anything about Mao's flutz while she was with him. It doesn't make sense that Mao refused because the first thing she did under TAT was to fix the flutz.