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Thread: what skaters do you love who never really made it?

  1. #61
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    I find it kind of sad to think of the thread concept.

    Re: R.D.'s point, some ppl interpret the thread title as those who did not meet their potential, rather than downplaying what they earned.

    To me, Yukari Nakano and Sasha made it. Yukari had splendid spins, but other elements or her basic skating skills were not. So I admire her for doing as much as she had done. Sasha, as well, I had not been following FS closely at that time, but if I had been, I would not have expected her to win OGM. She typically made mistakes in LP and it was not unexpected. So I think she earned Silver, rather than she missed Gold.

    On the other hand, Yukina Ota, I feel a lot of regrets. She had brilliant junior career, she won everything. She also won 4CC, but then injury came in. I read in a magazine called, "Number," in which her coach Yutaka Higuchi quotes David Willson that "Yukina is more beautiful than Yuna." To me, Yukina is much better than Mao, Yuna, or Sasha in terms of artistry. With the skating boom in Japan, I wish if she were more recognizable to the general public.

    Also there are see some current skaters on the list. But I would not list them because they still have potential.

    Has Alissa retired, BTW, as some ppl seem to suggest?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post

    Has Alissa retired, BTW, as some ppl seem to suggest?
    She left her coach back in February, and has yet to announce a new one, so I assume she is retired but I don't think it has been confirmed yet. I hope she does retire, she will be great in shows and it must get tough after awhile knowing that you're always going to make mistakes in your programs just because you're nervous.

  3. #63
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    She left her coach back in February, and has yet to announce a new one, so I assume she is retired but I don't think it has been confirmed yet. I hope she does retire, she will be great in shows and it must get tough after awhile knowing that you're always going to make mistakes in your programs just because you're nervous.
    I took the news on her leaving the coach as an indication that she would continue.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I took the news on her leaving the coach as an indication that she would continue.
    Oh well idk. I think she's done, I think she only stuck around the past 4 years to try and make the Olympic team, which she wasn't even close to making given her 10th place finish, and she'll be 26 in Sochi and I honestly doubt that she will even have a shot at making that team because of how young skaters tends to dominate the sport in the US. If she wants to continue she'll probably get 1 GP event in the coming season so it wouldn't be a waste. I doubt she'll make the World team though.

  5. #65
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    I read a very good practice report of hers before the nationals. So her appearance at nationals was regrettable, even though mental strength and consistency is a part of the games. I must give credit to skaters like Plush in that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Oh well idk. I think she's done, I think she only stuck around the past 4 years to try and make the Olympic team, which she wasn't even close to making given her 10th place finish, and she'll be 26 in Sochi and I honestly doubt that she will even have a shot at making that team because of how young skaters tends to dominate the sport in the US. If she wants to continue she'll probably get 1 GP event in the coming season so it wouldn't be a waste. I doubt she'll make the World team though.
    well...3rd, 9th, 1st, 10th...I see a pattern here. Y'all better watch out next year

  7. #67
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    This is one young lady I never forget.

    Liudmila Ivanova
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYPdFAIOhe8

    How beautiful she is both as a girl and a skater? She has the class. She dances so beautifully, has great lines that are both womanly and balletic, is relatively tall giving a good presence on ice, and is so refreshingly charming. Every position of hers is very beautiful, has good speed, beautiful stroking, and very nice spins with beautiful positions. I love her camel and layback. Both are very beautiful. All of her spirals look unfinished seen from the contemporary standard, but the entrances and positions are kind of lovely. Her arms and hands are both elegant and crisp in the movement. Very refreshing and lovely. Also her choreos of hers are very complete. The beginning and the ending are tied well together. Very lovely choreos that have a story. Her costume is also very classy and elegant.

    But her jumps suffered. Esp. the lutz she always watches her hand so intensely and I feel that she may be nervous. I don't think that she flutzes, she goes into deeper outside edge, but kind of messed it up here. But her 2A is very nice.

    But she is definitely one of the most attractive skaters I've ever seen. Her LP skating to My Fair Lady was even more lovely. She wore a very lovely, girlish white costume with white hair accessary and looked like an angel. She failed most of her jumps, but performed so well. I watched it countless times at that time despite the falls. I wish I could see more of hers now. If anyone has links, I'd greatly appreciate it.

    Someone mentioned Hubert -- I liked her speed and gorgeous tango. The most memorable performance was, however, unfortunately the one in Nagano Oly in which she gave up every time she failed in jumps and looked angry on ice. Then Yuka Sato was like "This is a shameful attitude as an olympian." (Yuka looks gentle and sweet and talks very calmly in a mature voice, but she can be pretty hard and disciplined in a situation like that; she commented pretty hard things to Miki at Torino Oly, too; To me, Miki looked almost helpless, but Hubert looked angry there).

    So my point here is that you can pull off attractive skating as long as you don't give up and keep performing from the heart. I really loved Ivanova's disasterous performance. It is not even because I admired her sportmanship or anything or moved by her guts. It was just simply and purely because it was such an extremely lovely performance despite all the failed jumps (I think she only landed one lutz and one 2A or something and failed everything else AFAIK) and I couldnt get my eyes away from her. She was just so lovely out there.
    Last edited by Bennett; 04-11-2010 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    well...3rd, 9th, 1st, 10th...I see a pattern here. Y'all better watch out next year
    I guess. The comment wasn't even so much about her consistency, more just that I don't believe that if she landed her jumps she'd be "untouchable" as some people think. He spins are awesome but Mirai's are just as good. Also, she doesn't have a 3-3 and has UR issues and just plain issues with her harder triples (loop, flip, lutz). Mirai is turning into a force to be reckoned with, if she can get that 3lz-3t solid no other US lady will be able to catch her, with the exception of maybe Christina Gao in a couple years. I just think Mirai with 3-3 (even without 3-3), Christina with 3-3 (I've seen her land beautiful 3f-3t in practices), Agnes with 3-3 (she's working on them and her jumps are huge), Rachael with her consistency and 3-3 (if she continues to compete), and Ashley with her superior speed and power and decent consistency, are all likely to overtake Alissa, and that's IF Alissa skates well; if she doesn't, skaters like Bebe, Alexe, Amanda Dobbs can overtake her like they did this year. If Caroline has a comeback that's another one to watch out for. Bear in mind her PB FS score is under 110, which Rachael and Mirai nearly matched with their very poor FS showings at Worlds.

    If she wants to keep skating, all the more power to her, but I think at this point, if her goal is to be "on top" nationally and especially internationally, it isn't likely to happen. I just feel like her skating style, though beautiful, is a little outdated. A few years ago, grace, flexibility, and artistry were enough to compensate for lesser technical difficulties, but now that is not the case, and thus we see Alissa, Caroline, Sasha, Yukari struggle to place well when the top ladies internationally are landing 7 triples in their FS and getting good levels and GOEs for the spins and spirals. Downgrades are costly in CoP, and Alissa gets a lot of them, GOE is a big factor in CoP, and Alissa never gets much on her jumps - even the ones she lands and rotates, backloading programs is also big in CoP and Alissa has a tendency to start out strong and then falter in the second half of the program.

    That being said, you never know. Maybe after this disastrous nationals, she'll pull a Miki Ando and come back strong, consistent and driven to prove herself, equipped with a 3lz-3t, and win worlds.
    Last edited by silverlake22; 04-11-2010 at 02:54 PM.

  9. #69
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    The thing about Alyssa is that in competition, she is a very cautious skater. I find she holds back, maybe to concentrate on landing the jumps.

    But then again, from what I saw of her in SOI, all she needs really is a song right up her avenue. Then just let the chips fall where they may.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    The thing about Alyssa is that in competition, she is a very cautious skater. I find she holds back, maybe to concentrate on landing the jumps.

    But then again, from what I saw of her in SOI, all she needs really is a song right up her avenue. Then just let the chips fall where they may.
    Her duet with Sasha is absolutely lovely. But I agree with you that she is cautious, and I actually think it hurts her jumps because she skates pretty slowly and therefore doesn't have as much power going in and out of her jumps as ladies who skate fast, and that probably contributes to why Alissa URs and falls so often. With more speed and strength she could probably hold on to a lot more of those jumps.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Her duet with Sasha is absolutely lovely. But I agree with you that she is cautious, and I actually think it hurts her jumps because she skates pretty slowly and therefore doesn't have as much power going in and out of her jumps as ladies who skate fast, and that probably contributes to why Alissa URs and falls so often. With more speed and strength she could probably hold on to a lot more of those jumps.
    I think you're overanalyzing this. Bottom line: She needs to control her nerves. She seems to be just fine in smaller events...she's very strong in pre-GP and GP events, for the most part...has strong practices...but just falls apart in competition. She's like Carolina Kostner except not as inconsistent.

    ETA: That said, it definitely couldn't hurt to pick up some speed.
    Last edited by R.D.; 04-11-2010 at 06:40 PM.

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    Matt Savoie
    Last edited by rtureck; 04-11-2010 at 06:38 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I think you're overanalyzing this. Bottom line: She needs to control her nerves. She seems to be just fine in smaller events...she's very strong in pre-GP and GP events, for the most part...has strong practices...but just falls apart in competition. She's like Carolina Kostner except not as inconsistent.

    ETA: That said, it definitely couldn't hurt to pick up some speed.
    Yeah, you're probably right. Carolina is more inconsistent, but I feel at her best she's better than Alissa because she has 3f-3t in her arsenal and incredible speed, plus the PCS boost of being European champion multiple times and a world medalist twice. But they are both headcases so it doesn't really matter. I prefer Carolina but she can have a complete meltdown whereas Alissa usually doesn't fall more than twice in a program so even if she gets ridden with URs on top of that the performance at least looks pretty good to the blind eye.

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    There have been many over the years. Here's a few-

    Braden Overett
    Yosuke Takeuchi
    Jeannie Miley / Michael Verlich
    Anna Rechnio
    Michael Chack

  15. #75
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    cissny definitely made it. cohen, no question--she was at hollywood premieres for goodness sake. i happen to think those skaters have reached their potential, so there's no regret like there is for yukina ota. i hope kostner will triumph one day, master her jumps yet retain the sense of musical pacing she had earlier this year while she was still with frank carroll--she's one i definitely root for.

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