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Thread: What could be the problem of Linichuk this year?

  1. #16
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    As another resident of Jadedville , I agree with KKonas. It remains to be seen if it is to be a real purge, or just a cosmetic shuffle. If NP is out , surely the influence of AS should be greatly diminished as well, if it is to be a real purge...

  2. #17
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    OOPS!..had to come back, having just noticed ImaginaryPogue's post..

    I ,too , think B/A were thrown under the bus a bit this season , and by Linichuk as well ..whether that was intentional or not, I don't know..but their programs did nothing to showcase their talents.Even though they have been surpassed technically, they still belong in the handful of elite couples.Their programs were generic and outdated .

    I feel Linichuk's choreography has been stagnant for some time , and she's been relying heavily on her political influence. When that wanes , the product she puts on the ice simply can't hold up. I really wonder what would have happened if B/A had used another choreographer as F/S did. Perhaps Linichuk improved their technique..by how much , I don't know..but she surely obliterated their on ice personalities.

    I think all of her efforts went into solving the problem of how to present the Dom Shabs , and the result, to me at least, only accentuated the degree to which she relies on tricks in all her programs.In the case of D/S it just had to be taken to the extreme.

  3. #18
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    When it comes to "campaigning" for her teams internationally, it would seem Linichuk is perfectly willing to sell out her American teams over her Russian teams. I think any US team would be a fool to train in the Linichuk camp !

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by footwork View Post
    When it comes to "campaigning" for her teams internationally, it would seem Linichuk is perfectly willing to sell out her American teams over her Russian teams. I think any US team would be a fool to train in the Linichuk camp !
    Yes, especially if she is coaching a Russian team. I wondered why B&A stayed in her camp when Domnina & Shabalin were suddenly sent by Piseev to Linichuk. But then where were they to go?
    They already cut ties to Shpilband. And B&A did win a silver medal at Worlds in 2009. Alla was on the panel (all three portions) at 2009 Worlds. And this season Alla judged Nelbelhorn, GP in Moscow, (Referee) NHK, GPFinal (Jr & Sr) and Refereed at Rus. Nationals and Olympic Winter Games in Vancouver.

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    I found it quite curious how Alla lost control of Irina Nechkina in Vancouver. Essentially, her vote became the lone odd vote at the end when the 8 other judges were giving the Canadians and Americans +3 for GOE and 9s for PCS whereas you can see that lone vote that is so far out of whack compared to the rest. The significance of having the wife of the Russian Fed on the Ice Dance panel can't be any more obvious. But at the end, I don't think the ISU has the stomach for yet another figure skating controversy in the Olympics and on Canadian soil too, it would be too much. Plus, the Russians really had such weak material that it was almost impossible to hold them up without going too far. Plus, I also think the fact that judges no longer control the BV of the elements is also working against the establishment teams who fail to deliver. It's easier to influence the judging panel but try to extent that influence on the Technical Panel is awfully hard. You can see that judges trying to hold up establishment teams only to be smack down by the calls of the Technical Panel such as the case of Delobel/Schoenfelder. Same thing happened at the Europeans. Judges gave the Russians high marks but due to low levels, they lost both OD and FD to the Italians. I think that's a good thing, it kept the outcome rather honest and made political dealing much more difficult in Ice Dance.

    As for the 2009 results, pretty much everyone I talked to when we were in LA at last year's world felt that both V/M and D/W should have scored higher in the FD than either of Linichuk teams. B/A struggled through that dance while D/S were pretty uninspiring. But it was a little easier to hold up the establishment teams last year because V/M just came back from an injury and D/W were coming from too far behind in the ranking to challenge against the top team. I don't think the 2009 results had much to do with Linichuk's influence or not. If anything, I think this kind of political dealing that ran Ice Dance for a long time is going to be very difficult to do going forward, hence whatever Alla promised Linichuk, it was probably all their wishful thinking to begin with.

  6. #21
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    [QUOTE=wallylutz;
    If anything, I think this kind of political dealing that ran Ice Dance for a long time is going to be very difficult to do going forward, hence whatever Alla promised Linichuk, it was probably all their wishful thinking to begin with.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps. But unless the ISU gets rid of the chain-smoking, mumbling Gorshkov, head of the IDTC,
    (he of the decision to allow Domnina/Shabalin to use belts in FD), we may continue to see some of the same sort of politics only with different people as we head to Sochi.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Perhaps. But unless the ISU gets rid of the chain-smoking, mumbling Gorshkov, head of the IDTC,
    (he of the decision to allow Domnina/Shabalin to use belts in FD), we may continue to see some of the same sort of politics only with different people as we head to Sochi.
    Well, we have a whole load of rules coming up and one of them is the "DomShabs rule" prohibiting the use of props like belts to assist in lifts.

    These are the times when I feel grateful for CoP, generic spiral sequences, spins, blah programmes and all. At the very least, the "wait your turn" syndrome has been reduced significantly and the young teams are rightfully scored. I suspect that under 6.0, DomShabs would have been held up, particularly on the presentation mark and V/M and D/W would probably be so far behind in the CD there was no way to catch up, and then further held down on presentation.

    I think Linichuck believed that she could politik her way to the gold with Alla's help; she's probably thinking the dynamics of ice dance haven't changed post-6.0, and neither has the style. Honestly speaking, there's no comparing the technical standards of the Shpilband teams vs hers in the OD and FD. Image-wise, she did them a disfavour by packaging them unfavourably with uninspiring programmes, especially the OD. Much as people complain about Zoueva's choreography, you have to admit that her programmes emphasized the best aspects of their skating (eg nice, clean lines for V/M) and helped to hide their weaknesses. Also, with Maxim injured, it would be difficult to match the technical standards of V/M and D/W. Why she didn't want to help B/A by giving them better choreography is probably because once she took on D/S, they would be thrown under the bus regardless imo.

    Well, with Piseev on the way out (and presumably Alla as well) and Sochi in 4 years time, I really wonder what will happen next. Will Linichuck regain her mojo and get new teams in her stable or be ursurped by the up and coming coaches like Zhulin? Will the Russian Fed decide to foster a relationship with Team Shpilband and send their teams there? Tis very exciting.

    I doubt V/M or D/W will ever go to Linichuk. For starters, much as I hate to say it, V/M probably won't stay until Sochi. They've really got nothing left to win; I expect them to retire after 1-2 more seasons, unless 2013 Worlds goes to London, in which case they might consider hanging on til then. Also, D/W are at U of Mich and unlike Aston, Canton allows V/M to return home relatively often. Zazoui is all the way in France. I also don't think Linichuk's choreography and style is very suitable for the two teams, particularly V/M. If any of them do move, I see them moving only to Platov, Bourne or Krylova/ Carmelengo, like ImaginaryPogue. K/C might be viable for V/M since they're in Bloomfield Hills.

    Thanks ptichka for the wonderful translation!
    Last edited by mishieru07; 04-10-2010 at 02:36 AM.

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