Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 98

Thread: maybe controversial but want to know...ladies bronze vancouver

  1. #16
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by tarotx View Post
    The rule stated above was for what happened to Mao at 2008 worlds not the 2010 Olympics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOwrOxjLRGE
    Yeah, it was a clear attempt, but she did not repeat it. Was it marked as a single axel? She achieved only a half or one revolution in the air.

  2. #17
    Mashimaro on Ice
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,419
    Wallylutz Thanks for the explanation. There's something I noticed from the ISU description you provided.

    "In some cases, which need to be decided by the Technical Panel, the preparation for the take-off without leaving the ice might be also called an
    attempt
    ,"

    This statement seems to imply that according to the rules, the tech panel is justified with calling or not calling a jump; the decision entirely rests upon them. This really explains a lot why we see so many inconsistent calling these days.

  3. #18
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    436
    Such a boring post, when there is nothing to discuss about.... Better to wait until October then creating questions like this.

    The podium was LOVELY in Vancouver. It doesn't mean that everybody should like that.
    Ms Nagasu's mother MUST have a very different opinion also

  4. #19
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,801
    I did not look through the protocols, but in general, if one wants to discuss about overscoring/underscoring, I think it's best that you do so while specifying where the overscoring/underscoring took place; otherwise it just looks like complaining.

    I loved the ladies' podium in Vancouver; it was the way I wanted it to be. However, it gave me bad vibes when the judges were taking a disproportionately long time going over Mirai's LP scores. I'm not saying there was anything fishy going on, but for whatever reason, it gave me the feeling that something fishy could have been going on. All my heart wanted Joannie to earn a medal, but it did seem to me that the judges were possibly scrutinizing Mirai's performance closely to ensure that, which admittedly made me feel bad for Mirai, too.

  5. #20
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,713
    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I did not look through the protocols, but in general, if one wants to discuss about overscoring/underscoring, I think it's best that you do so while specifying where the overscoring/underscoring took place; otherwise it just looks like complaining.

    I loved the ladies' podium in Vancouver; it was the way I wanted it to be. However, it gave me bad vibes when the judges were taking a disproportionately long time going over Mirai's LP scores. I'm not saying there was anything fishy going on, but for whatever reason, it gave me the feeling that something fishy could have been going on. All my heart wanted Joannie to earn a medal, but it did seem to me that the judges were possibly scrutinizing Mirai's performance closely to ensure that, which admittedly made me feel bad for Mirai, too.
    But Mirai didn't receive any ur call or low levels except for her spiral. The only way the judges could cook up the results would've been adjusting her pcs, but I doubt they gave her higher pcs than Joannie in the first place.

  6. #21
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    I'd say Joannie's programs were better than Mirai's. It's not that Mirai's were bad, but Joannie's were among the most sophisticated, well-choreographed programs in the field at least during the last couple of years. If Mirai had better programs that had matched Rochette's, then the result might have been better. Technically, I think that Mirai was better out there. She was clean and extremely fast. Rochette was fast, too, but not clean in her LP. She made at least two major mistakes. And she did not have 3-3 or 3A as Yuna and Mao did.

  7. #22
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    251
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Yeah, it was a clear attempt, but she did not repeat it. Was it marked as a single axel? She achieved only a half or one revolution in the air.
    At 2008 worlds Mao doen't completely leave the ice at all. Her front leg was in the air and she hit an edge (or something) and face planted. It was marked an Axel and recieved no points. In Vancouvour she is setting up a jump, catches an edge (or something) and then does the jump. It's not even really a new prep. It's altogether.

  8. #23
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,215
    We're in the month of April already and someone is still b!tching about the Olympics. Shocking!

  9. #24
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Storybrooke, Maine
    Posts
    3,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    And she did not have 3-3 or 3A as Yuna and Mao did.
    And Yu-Na did not have a 3loop like Mao and Joannie did.
    And Mao did not have a 3Lutz, a 3Salchow, and a 3toe like Yu-Na and Joannie did.

    If you're going to scrutinize what one Olympic medalist lacked in jump content, you may as well be fair and specify what jumps the gold and silver medalist didn't have. Joannie so often gets criticized for not doing "difficult" technical content when in fact she's one of the very few ladies who does a full arsenal of triples minus the Axel.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 04-09-2010 at 12:33 PM.

  10. #25
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,211
    Quote Originally Posted by tarotx View Post
    At 2008 worlds Mao doen't completely leave the ice at all. Her front leg was in the air and she hit an edge (or something) and face planted. It was marked an Axel and recieved no points. In Vancouvour she is setting up a jump, catches an edge (or something) and then does the jump. It's not even really a new prep. It's altogether.
    Actually it was marked as an "A" with no value. A single Axel is marked as "1A" and one that is under-rotated but is more than 3/4 of a turn (or so) is marked "1A <"

  11. #26
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,781
    I kind of thought Mirai should have beat Joannie in the FS, but Joannie was ahead in the SP so maybe she still would have come out ahead even if Mirai beat her in the FS. However, in person the skating might have looked different. People talk about Joannie having a magical quality to her artistry and maybe that's only picked up on if you're watching the event live. Joannie was often ahead of other skaters who had better jumps in other competitions, because of her PCs, so I don't think it was a gift because her mother died. If they had really wanted to gift her, they would have given her the silver over Mao, because Mao did mess up some elements.

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by tarotx View Post
    The rule stated above was for what happened to Mao at 2008 worlds not the 2010 Olympics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOwrOxjLRGE
    I think what you meant to say is that the Technical Panel chose not to invoke the <<Attempted Jump>> clause in the Vancouver Olympic re: that specific Triple Toe Loop attempt. The rule I quoted however is applicable and as far as I am concerned, the correct one in this situation. The Panel may have chosen not to invoke it, but that doesn't mean an argument cannot be made that it should have. The rule does not limit the definition of an <<Attempted Jump>> to a single type of listed jump, it can be Axel, Loop, Toe Loop and anything, like a Flip such Yu-Na Kim did here at TEB 2009:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-wajuze5f8#t=1m24s

    As you can see, her foot never left the ice either, nor did she fall. Falling is not a requirement for an Attempted Jump to be called as you seem to think by citing Mao's failed Triple Axel at the 2008 Worlds. Nevertheless, the Technical Panel counted that as an attempt per the protocol here: http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf If Kim had attempted another jump somewhere else in her program, she would have the 8th jumping pass voided as invalid.

    Skaters make that kind of mental error all the time, Oda did at the 2009 Worlds by doing a 4th jumping combo for example. Skaters falling or stumbling on take off of an jump, never got into the air, got up or regroup and do it again = invalid. This happens more often at the lower level of skaters, so if you watch the Group 1 or 2 of SP at Worlds, you tend to see those lower level skaters making that kind of mistake.

  13. #28
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Wallylutz Thanks for the explanation. There's something I noticed from the ISU description you provided.

    "In some cases, which need to be decided by the Technical Panel, the preparation for the take-off without leaving the ice might be also called an
    attempt
    ,"

    This statement seems to imply that according to the rules, the tech panel is justified with calling or not calling a jump; the decision entirely rests upon them. This really explains a lot why we see so many inconsistent calling these days.
    Here are two recent examples of stumbles into a jump that if the skater has fallen on those stumbles, it would / should NOT have constituted as an Attempted Jump:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjgl_...elated#t=1m22s at 1m24s mark, you can hear Barbara Fusar-Poli calling it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRTJ...elated#t=1m25s at 1m27s mark, you can see her stumble into her Triple Lutz combo

  14. #29
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Watching the sunset
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    And Yu-Na did not have a 3loop like Mao and Joannie did.
    And Mao did not have a 3Lutz, a 3Salchow, and a 3toe like Yu-Na and Joannie did.

    If you're going to scrutinize what one Olympic medalist lacked in jump content, you may as well be fair and specify what jumps the gold and silver medalist didn't have. Joannie so often gets criticized for not doing "difficult" technical content when in fact she's one of the very few ladies who does a full arsenal of triples minus the Axel.
    I know. But COP does not reward having a full arsenal of triples. That's why Mao without a full set of triples was unbeatable in 2005, before the edge and UR calls came to be introduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I kind of thought Mirai should have beat Joannie in the FS, but Joannie was ahead in the SP so maybe she still would have come out ahead even if Mirai beat her in the FS. However, in person the skating might have looked different. People talk about Joannie having a magical quality to her artistry and maybe that's only picked up on if you're watching the event live. Joannie was often ahead of other skaters who had better jumps in other competitions, because of her PCs, so I don't think it was a gift because her mother died. If they had really wanted to gift her, they would have given her the silver over Mao, because Mao did mess up some elements.
    Yeah, but Mirai may have been robbed in SP, too.

    Joannie was already great two seasons ago but was not rewarded. Then after getting the reputation, she has come to be rewarded. Then even when she messed up at SC, she was rewarded.

  15. #30
    The Future Mrs. Evan Lysacek #1Kerryfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland Heights, Ohio
    Posts
    594
    I had Rochette second. I know I'm in the BIG minority in the skating world, but I had Asada for gold, Rochette for silver and Nagasu for bronze, with Kim fourth.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •