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Thread: Joannie Rochette Rivalry For 2008-2010?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I strongly disagree. Ando won both her GP events this season and won silver at the GPF. Joannie won 3rd and 1st at her GP events but the 1st was only because of hometown bonus and a splatfest event. She came in 5th at the GPF and would have lost the event behind Leonova if it weren't for her PCS. I know Miki was 5th in Vancouver and 4th at Worlds, but that's hardly something to poo-poo. She consistently makes the GPF and places well. Joannie is very inconsistent and while at her best she may be better than Ando, I think saying Ando is not competitive is unfair. The NBC commentators said she or Mao would be most likely to overtake Yuna at the Olympics should Yuna make mistakes.
    If you point out Rochette's hometown bonus, why not point out Ando's hometown bonus at NHK? She was decimated on the TES by Leonova, and won on the strength of her PCS. She won silver at GPF on the strength of her PCS. Rochette's beat Ando in their head to head competitions all but once these past two seasons.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    If you point out Rochette's hometown bonus, why not point out Ando's hometown bonus at NHK? She was decimated on the TES by Leonova, and won on the strength of her PCS. She won silver at GPF on the strength of her PCS. Rochette's beat Ando in their head to head competitions all but once these past two seasons.
    I'd say the two are pretty comparable, but Miki has been competitive for longer than Rochette has.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Yes, please see janetfan's post #6.
    Thnx wally/Janetfan

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I'd say the two are pretty comparable, but Miki has been competitive for longer than Rochette has.
    yeah, I am sure Fumie Suguri will cry foul after seeing your statement.

    Even the longer claim is subject to interpretation. Remind me, what place did Ando finish at the 2006 Olympics? And Rochette's?

  5. #20
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    yeah, I am sure Fumie Suguri will cry foul after seeing your statement.

    Even the longer claim is subject to interpretation. Remind me, what place did Ando finish at the 2006 Olympics? And Rochette's?
    Ando was 15th, I think Rochette was 6th.

  6. #21
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Ando was 15th, I think Rochette was 6th.
    Their Olympic Records are:

    Joannie: 2006-5th; 2010-3rd
    Miki: 2006-15th; 2010-5th

    I don't know how anyone can honestly claim that Ando is more competitive than Rochette.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 04-15-2010 at 03:51 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Here is Joannie's winning LP from Japan Open:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxIv0iQhWA


    And Laura's LP which won her Silver:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kiNSEMTc6Y


    Mao placed third .....
    No video for Mao's?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    yeah, I am sure Fumie Suguri will cry foul after seeing your statement.

    Even the longer claim is subject to interpretation. Remind me, what place did Ando finish at the 2006 Olympics? And Rochette's?
    Miki has been on the World podium twice though, and won a world title and won tons of stuff at the junior level. I'm not saying Miki is better than Joannie, I'm just saying their accomplishments are comparable and if anyone gets the edge, it's Miki because Joannie's successes have really only come during the past 2 seasons.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Has Joannie Rochette won anything important? Nope.
    She wasn't even a serious competitor until last year and that with a huge push from Skate Canada.

    Miki boring and labored LP was about 8 points more than Laura. Her SP was a disaster and that's how Laura got the bronze. Joannie could do worse at Worlds had she entered. She's very inconsistent, case in point: her GPF record. She got one world medal in the past 8 years. Somehow that made her Mao Asada's rival? Mao triple axels Asada? LOL.
    You would rather not to underestimate Joannie Rochette. She surely does not have triple axel but has Lutz and Salchow. In the long program, 3A(s) is(or are) just one or two out of 12 elements.

  10. #25
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    One season (08-09) does not a rivalry make.

    It's a bit of a stretch to count the 09-10 season as Mao and Joannie have only met head-to-head once (Olympics), Japan Open was a glorified cheesefest. Maybe if Joannie continues her competitive skating career there may be a rivalry, but that doesn't seem likely at this moment. Besides, Joannie's competitive record pales in comparison to Mao--Mao is 2x World Champion, 2x 4CC champion, and 2x GPF champion while Joannie hasn't won a single ISU championship. Miki is closer to a rival to Joannie than Mao, but even Miki has a world title under her belt.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    One season (08-09) does not a rivalry make.

    It's a bit of a stretch to count the 09-10 season as Mao and Joannie have only met head-to-head once (Olympics), Japan Open was a glorified cheesefest. Maybe if Joannie continues her competitive skating career there may be a rivalry, but that doesn't seem likely at this moment. Besides, Joannie's competitive record pales in comparison to Mao--Mao is 2x World Champion, 2x 4CC champion, and 2x GPF champion while Joannie hasn't won a single ISU championship. Miki is closer to a rival to Joannie than Mao, but even Miki has a world title under her belt.
    Believe it or not, only 0.26 points diff. head to head does say alot!

  12. #27
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    Imo Joannie used to be ridged and tight but she really has found herself and I find her a joy to watch. Her new SOI exhibition is wonderful. And also imo Mao seemed to try to hard for me to really get into her programs for the past seasons. At the Olympic short she really came to life for me and then again at the 2010 Worlds she seemed closer to her pre 2008-2009 season self. Mao still has a awesome looking 3-3 even if it probably wouldn't get ratified.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu3whrnxpDs

    Since Miki won the bronze at the 2009 worlds and finished 4th this season I think we shouldn't write her out of the picture yet. If she hits her jumps she's still a threat. I''ve never been a fan of her skating though I loved her 2006 programs.

    Yu Na is a consistent and lovely skater who has come a long at the right time in history for her to truly dominate. If she can stay healthy she should be strong for years to come even if she doesn't improve her limited weaknesses. I think Mao and Mirai can get close to her if they hit their jumps good enough to get ratified and has good programs. I think Yu Na really had great programs this season and I loved her short nearly every season so I hope she stays around. I hope Joannie retires and pushes for more North American pro events and I hope Mao remembers to enjoy herself instead of trying too hard to be great. I hope Mirai skates like she did at nationals and the Olympics with slightly more rotated jumps then she can be a real contender.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflatt View Post
    Believe it or not, only 0.26 points diff. head to head does say alot!
    Yes, head-to-head does say a lot indeed. Mao and Joannie have met head-to-head nine times this Olympic quad in ISU competition.

    Mao has topped Joannie 6 times out of 9 (2010 Olympics, 2007 and 2008 Worlds, 2008 4CC, 2008 GPF, 2007 Skate Canada) while Joannie has beat Mao 3 times all in the same season (2009 Worlds, 2009 4CC, 2008 TEB). If Joannie continues beating Mao, I'll be more convinced that they have a real rivalry.

    Also, isn't it funny how statistics produce very different results when you adjust the size of the sample?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    One season (08-09) does not a rivalry make.

    It's a bit of a stretch to count the 09-10 season as Mao and Joannie have only met head-to-head once (Olympics), Japan Open was a glorified cheesefest. Maybe if Joannie continues her competitive skating career there may be a rivalry, but that doesn't seem likely at this moment. Besides, Joannie's competitive record pales in comparison to Mao--Mao is 2x World Champion, 2x 4CC champion, and 2x GPF champion while Joannie hasn't won a single ISU championship. Miki is closer to a rival to Joannie than Mao, but even Miki has a world title under her belt.
    In other words, using your logic, Tara Lipinski should not have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    In other words, using your logic, Tara Lipinski should not have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan?
    Using my logic, Tara Lipinski should stilll have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan.

    Tara and Michelle both competed on the senior circuit from 1995-1998, so it would be reasonable to only count Michelle's titles in the years that they were actually competing against each other (just as I had only compared Joannie and Mao starting from the 2006-2007 season). If we were to count number of ISU championships won during that timespan, Tara had 1 Olympic title, 1 world title and 1 Champion Series Final title to Michelle's 2 world titles and 1 Champion Series Final title (though Michelle's 1998 world title was won during Tara's absence). Those are very comparable records, especially given that Tara was virtually a nobody during the 95-96 season. True, Tara only really dominated Michelle for the 96-97 season, but Tara did also manage to win the biggest title of the 97-98 season in the midst of Michelle's dominance and moreover, Tara was only on the full senior competition circuit for two seasons.

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